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Thread: Inline carbing

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Casselman, ON Canada
    Posts
    131

    Inline carbing

    Hi!

    Setting up our equipment for our nano brewery to be ready to sell by june, all is going well. I know inline carbing has been covered many times and I also read all the posts about it. Thing is, we are fermenting and conditioning our beers in 240gal plastic conicals. we got our hands on a 400gal brite tank single wall which we will use for our bottling/kegging tank since plastic conicals cannot hold pressure. We were going to go with 17-1815.5 gal kegs and carb them one by one until we got our hands on this 400gal for 2000$... 3 months old.

    So, thinking about my carbing process and how to relate to how I've been doing it for over a thousand of gallons at the home brewer level, I use an HDP Carbonator, which simply recirc the beer from the keg goes through an inline C02 stone and back back in the keg for several minutes (about 7 usually), that works great... for 5gal.

    Now, with that 400 gal I thought of adding an inline stone on a T with a sight glass and use our brewery pump to recirc the beer and carb it up. The bottom of this 400 gal tank as 2 1.5 TC connection, one at the very bottom (drain) and one at the 20gal mark. As many mentioned they bleed off the CIP, when relating to the HDP Carbonator, we never bleed the "excess" pressure, it simply recircs.

    You guys think it would work the way I plan it? I know it will take more time but I do think it will work. Of course one way to find out is to try it but this will be our inaugural batch, I rather get some feedback prior

    Also, one more question. Since our fermenters have 240gal and our bottling tank is 400gal, what if we don't fill it up completely? it will happen for sure. filling the headpsace with C02 will cost an arm and a leg just to fill our bottles. Could I get an inline air filter (same as divers use) and fill the headpace with air instead? Although I worry about oxidation.

    Perhaps we'll have to make it so we fill it up all the time, which is doable, although it would mean mixing 2 batch together.

    Thanks in advance for all your tips and guidance!

    Cheers
    Cheers!
    ______________

    Mario Bourgeois
    www.CasselBrewery.ca
    Casselman ON Canada

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    429
    Quote Originally Posted by CasselBrewery
    Also, one more question. Since our fermenters have 240gal and our bottling tank is 400gal, what if we don't fill it up completely? it will happen for sure. filling the headpsace with C02 will cost an arm and a leg just to fill our bottles. Could I get an inline air filter (same as divers use) and fill the headpace with air instead? Although I worry about oxidation
    Hi Mario,

    You will definitely get horrendous oxidation problems if you fill with air and will also lose CO2 into the headspace.

    If you don't plan to hold beer in your brite tanks for long (ie. a few hours at most) then you may be okay with nitrogen, which will eliminate oxidation but will still cause CO2 loss over time (hence it's not a good option long term).

    Depending on your carbonation level you could use N2/CO2 mixed gas.

    As your fermentation capacity is 240gal, would it be workable for you to brew 200gal batches slightly more often and fill your brite tank to 400gal? That way you remove the big headspace issue and by going with slightly smaller brews you don't have the excess 40gal to worry about.

    Your planned carbonation method sounds okay - others here will be able to give more detailed advice on times, which tank connection for in & out, etc.

    Hope that helps!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Casselman, ON Canada
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by KWLSD
    Hi Mario,

    You will definitely get horrendous oxidation problems if you fill with air and will also lose CO2 into the headspace.
    Thanks for your reply! That confirms what I thought, was logical that it would create horrendous oxidation but just in case it wouldn't for some odd reason...

    As your fermentation capacity is 240gal, would it be workable for you to brew 200gal batches slightly more often and fill your brite tank to 400gal? That way you remove the big headspace issue and by going with slightly smaller brews you don't have the excess 40gal to worry about.
    Yep that is exactly what I think as by brew schedule. I have to brew slightly more given the small loss between the fermenter and the bottling tank. It will also make the bottling session more productive by tacking 400gal of it in one shot.
    Also the total capaciti of the fermenters is 240gal to the top, I have to leave some headspace for the krausen anyway.

    Cheers!
    Cheers!
    ______________

    Mario Bourgeois
    www.CasselBrewery.ca
    Casselman ON Canada

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    UK
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    429
    Always pleased to help

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Philipsburg, MT, USA
    Posts
    49

    Something else.

    You may also notice that aromas are muted when the brites have a large headspace. The volatile oils in the beer want to come to equilibrium with the pure CO2 above them, so the less headspace you have, the less aroma will leave your beer. Any thoughts, anyone?

    Mike
    Kettlehouse Brewing Co.
    Soon-to-be-head brewer at Philipsburg Brewing Co.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Casselman, ON Canada
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Elliott
    You may also notice that aromas are muted when the brites have a large headspace. The volatile oils in the beer want to come to equilibrium with the pure CO2 above them, so the less headspace you have, the less aroma will leave your beer. Any thoughts, anyone?
    Thanks Mike, haven't thought of that angle but it makes sense, mostly similar to having a bottle half filled.
    Cheers!
    ______________

    Mario Bourgeois
    www.CasselBrewery.ca
    Casselman ON Canada

  7. #7
    AnalysisAnnie Guest
    Mario

    You will lose a lot of the compounds which give your beer 'warmth' and fullness. Compounds like acetaldehyde, which give a green apple/cut grass note to your beer flash off easily at room temperature so leaving your beer with a large headspace in the tank will reduce levels of this and other compounds like isoamyl acetate, ethyl hexanoate etc which give your beer 'fruity' notes. This means that as well as oxidation giving you staling characteristics you will be losing compounds which give your beer its aroma.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Casselman, ON Canada
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by AnalysisAnnie
    Mario

    You will lose a lot of the compounds which give your beer 'warmth' and fullness. Compounds like acetaldehyde, which give a green apple/cut grass note to your beer flash off easily at room temperature so leaving your beer with a large headspace in the tank will reduce levels of this and other compounds like isoamyl acetate, ethyl hexanoate etc which give your beer 'fruity' notes. This means that as well as oxidation giving you staling characteristics you will be losing compounds which give your beer its aroma.
    Thanks for the thorough explanation Annie! makes sense and I will adapt our brewing schedule to fill that puppy to the top (leaving a tiny bit of headspace)

    If we have half a batch we ll use our stock of keg to manage it or perhaps will get a hold of another tank futher down the road.
    Cheers!
    ______________

    Mario Bourgeois
    www.CasselBrewery.ca
    Casselman ON Canada

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