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Thread: Hot Break Lauter Tun

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Somerville, Massachusetts
    Posts
    35

    Hot Break Lauter Tun

    Hi all,

    We recently got a silo of malt and I've noticed for the first time that we have protein breaking out in our lauter pot. Now this is the same brand malt that we used prior to the silo and I've never seen this before. Our first wort is not pretty no matter how much I vorlauff, but it brightens up a couple of barrels in. The overall quality of the wort in VERY hazy and it's been difficult to control with kettle finings. Our mill seems to be doing a decent crush as well - though I can have a closer look at that later this week.

    I haven't gone through the specs on the malt thoroughly yet (some I have and others I don't yet). I wondering in advance what I should be looking for on the spec sheet.

    FYI we use a mash/kettle where we go: 120f, 142f, 158f, 175f before transferring mash to the lauter.

    Lastly, what are the hazards of this proteiny wort?

    Cheers,

    Dann

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Solana Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    58

    silo

    Have you ever completely emptied the silo? Sometimes when silos are used they do not get completely emptied regularly. This needs to be done otherwise grain, dust and other debris get trapped around the cone or bottom of silo. The trapped debris and malt can then become stale, infested with bugs and mold etc. This might explain your description.
    Just a thought

    D. Meadows
    El Cajon Brewing Co

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, VT
    Posts
    190
    Are you using Rahr?
    I've been noticing the same thing lately...
    More cloudy, more protein, and more haze...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Somerville, Massachusetts
    Posts
    35

    Hot Break Lauter Tun

    Thanks D. and Shaun.

    D - thanks for that. I could totally see something like that happening. I'm going to take a look inside next time it's empty. Last time I was wanting to do it my wife (and co-brewer) talked me out of it - it's a pretty high and scary climb and the weather wasn't great... I wimped out. What was I thinking?

    Shaun, I'm using Canada Superior Pils. It's been a great malt for me. I've used Rahr in the past but thought the flavour was a bit husky-toasty for what I wanted. But I suppose this is more of a barley issue rather than any malting brand.

    Thanks guys.

    Is Dick Murton still on here? He always has something really good to add too.

    Dann
    Dann Paquette
    Cofounder/Brewer
    Pretty Things Beer & Ale Project
    Somerville, Massachusetts
    www.prettythingsbeertoday.com
    &
    Once Upon A Time Beers
    www.oldbeers.com
    "Beer is proof that Benjamin Franklin loves us" God

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Haverhill, Massachusetts
    Posts
    25
    Dann, have experienced that firsthand many times. Both points brought up are on target regarding silo issues and nitrogen (protein) variation in malt brands and varieties. Silos are notorious for doing other things as well, including variable distribution of shattered husk material throughout the container. As the malt is drawn out of the silo, loose husks can precipitate into large concentrated deposits. Your problem sounds to me like high nitrogen and/or beta-glucan, both variables that are malt specific and can vary widely even within batches. In the late 90's there was a large upswing in total soluble nitrogen and FAN in the North American crop, in addition to increased beta-glucan. The phenomena of "break" and increased "underdough" in the tun all the way through to the finished beer resulted in permanent hazing all pointed back to this crop condition. Pilsner malts can be, depending on maltster and crop condition, on the undermodified side as well, only making things worse. I take it that you are using a multi-step mashing process with allowance for increased protease activity. This points again to a malt issue. Ask your supplier for the current batch specifications, look for heightened FAN, TSN and beta-glucan. Mill grind is always a suspect as well, but you would also see a noticeable reduction in extract yield. There are as you know a few dozen things going on that can screw you up! Good luck, hope it helps.

    Cheers, S

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Somerville, Massachusetts
    Posts
    35

    Hot Break Lauter Tun

    Interesting. Second silo fill and the problem is still there. It was totally uniform in the first silo fill as well. Anyway, I've been getting better at getting it back in the lauter tun and out of my wort.

    Cheers,

    Dann
    Dann Paquette
    Cofounder/Brewer
    Pretty Things Beer & Ale Project
    Somerville, Massachusetts
    www.prettythingsbeertoday.com
    &
    Once Upon A Time Beers
    www.oldbeers.com
    "Beer is proof that Benjamin Franklin loves us" God

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,057
    Got to have a break every now & again - spring (i.e. hot weather) skiing.

    I agree with Shaun. It sounds like the incoming malt is likely to be the cause.

    The protein stand sounds low at 49 C - and might not be working very well. A more typical temperature is 52 to 54 C (126 - 129 F). Saccharification stands a bit low, but I think I would leave this as is for now, but consider raising the 142 F to 151, depending on the stand time and degree of attenuation you want. And 175 is perhaps a bit hot. Normally 171 - 173 F - to reduce extraction of astringent / haze forming tannins.

    What is your mash pH like ?

    Are you adding any calcium as chloride or sulphate ?

    New seasons malt / last of last years with a lot of "sweepings" ? A bit late for the changeover, but....

    Have you calibrated your temperature probes recently ?

    If you are grinding yourself, is it producing more finer material - particularly the husk ? Look at the mositure content of the spec - has this changed suddenly - drier so it breaks the husk up in particular ?
    dick

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Somerville, Massachusetts
    Posts
    35

    Hot Break Lauter Tun

    *******************
    Last edited by prettythings; 03-30-2012 at 10:24 AM.
    Dann Paquette
    Cofounder/Brewer
    Pretty Things Beer & Ale Project
    Somerville, Massachusetts
    www.prettythingsbeertoday.com
    &
    Once Upon A Time Beers
    www.oldbeers.com
    "Beer is proof that Benjamin Franklin loves us" God

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