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  • I apologize for my snippy tone--long frustrating day.

    So, the voltage drop is on the output of the sensor? You might check the 24V power supply and make sure it's actually putting out ~24V. I suspect that it is, as there are several other components that run from it. The slow degradation of the output is strange, and I can't think of what might cause it other than the PS itself--but it's early and I haven't finished my coffee yet.

    Have you added any other components to the 24V control circuit? If you have another solenoid or relay in parallel with the air solenoid, and it has a lower resistance then the air valve, it could be siphoning off enough power to do what you describe.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

    Comment


    • It kind of sounds like a bad or "hot" connection to me. Especially, if I read right, the wires that enter the control panel are different than the ones that lead out from the sensor. If there is a corroded connection somewhere along the way (or a component connected to that circuit), you might see voltage look good, then drop down as the resistance of the bad connection increases due to local heating. Usually you see this on circuits with more load than this, though. Mostly a shot in the dark, but worth checking.

      If you can use your multimeter to measure the voltage drop from the sensor QD to where it shows up in the panel, it might shed some light. If the wire went straight through, with no intermediary components, you'll see zero volts. If, after you read 3 volts across the sensor, you find that there's 20 volts on one or the other wires (one side is probably "common", but the problem could be on either side), then either there's a component in between that's dropping the voltage, or there's a bad connection. If you see that there's ~10 volts dropped across one wire, and ~10 volts across the other, there's probably an intermediary component that you'll need to find.

      You could power it all off and read the resistance of the wire, but I think your issue happens only when under load. So instead of measuring the resistance, measure the voltage drop (which gives you the resistance indirectly). The sum of the voltage drops always equals the supply voltage.

      Here's a crude diagram of what I'm talking about:

      Click image for larger version

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      Regards,
      Mike Sharp

      Comment


      • I just took a look at our 3003A, and I'd forgotten that I had to repair the cable that goes to that sensor a few years back. The cable rubs on top of the edge of the guard that goes around the filler, and it wore through and shorted out. Check that area for wear. A little soldering and some shrink-wrap fixed the problem.
        Timm Turrentine

        Brewerywright,
        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
        Enterprise. Oregon.

        Comment


        • Hey fellas, just wanted to give you an update on my "bottle present" sensor issue.

          SUCCESS! Mike, you totally hit the nail on the head with the corroded connection theory. I noticed that the insulation of the wiring was different from underneath the machine to the insulation of the wiring coming out of the sensor. It finally dawned on me that there must be a splice in the vertical metal tube that houses both sensor wires and also the pneumatic tubing. I opened the top and pulled all of the slack out and, as my attached picture shows, there was a splice that was in terrible shape.

          Since I had already severed the original sensor wire up top to check voltages, I decided to go ahead and thread in the new sensor I got from Prospero. No sense in having two splices, one of which was exposed to spray and all that. I repaired the splice, wrapped it up tight, shoved it back down in the tube, replaced the tube cap, and it works like a charm now. No more having to manually switch the air lines and all of that nonsense.

          Thanks again Mike and Timm for being a sounding board, appreciate it.

          Cheers!

          Adam T.
          Zipline Brewing Co
          Lincoln, NE
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • Wow! That was a lousy splice to begin with, especially for a wet area.

            Another set of wires to keep an eye on is the harness that feeds the vibrator motor for the crowner. We've twice had the wires break where they're spliced inside the vibrator shroud at the crowner. If you suddenly have to start messing with the vibrator frequency/amplitude, suspect those wires are going and inspect them.
            Timm Turrentine

            Brewerywright,
            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
            Enterprise. Oregon.

            Comment


            • Glad to have helped! The changing voltage was a dead giveaway. I've seen hot connections act like that many times.

              Yeah, that's an "icky" splice for sure. I love the verdigris coming out of it. Crimp on connectors rarely work well, unless you use the correct type of crimping tool. And in a wet/acidic/corrosive environment...not at all.

              A tiny bit of "No-Al-Ox" helps to keep electrical joints from going bad in nasty environments. I like the dark grey kind, that has graphite or zinc in it (Ideal brand, IIRC). Don't get it on the insulator--it's conductive. Technically it's intended for aluminum connections, but it also works great for the battery terminals in your car! And I'd always finish off a splice with self-vulcanizing tape from 3M, followed by a wrap of good electrical tape.

              Regards,
              Mike Sharp

              Comment


              • For a splice in a wet/corrosive environment like that, I solder the joint and seal it with self-sealing shrink tubing. THe tubing has a heat-activated adhesive liner that seals the splice perfectly, and the tubing acts as a strain relief to keep the wires from breaking at the solder joint.
                Timm Turrentine

                Brewerywright,
                Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                Enterprise. Oregon.

                Comment


                • Another crowner save!

                  We've been having some serious crowner problems lately on our GAI 3003A Bier. We were rarely able to go more than a couple of cases between crown jams, and sometimes only got a few bottles between jams.

                  This was bent/mashed/overlapped crowns in the crowner head, sometimes resulting in exploding bottles.

                  I'd tried adjusting everything. No joy. I tried buying a whole nest lower crowner assy from Prospero--wrong part. No one at Pros was any help. I was at wit's end.

                  I was fiddling with the lever that retracts the crowns a couple of weeks ago, and noticed the bushings were loose, and the lever had some slop to it, so I ordered new bushings.

                  Forget that--the bushings cannot be removed. I tried everything. They don't come out.

                  So I ordered the assy that holds the bushings, with bushings installed: 417-5305.

                  Here it is, in place:

                  Click image for larger version

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                  We're now getting at most a couple of crown jams in a long day of many hundred cases! $54 and problem solved!

                  If you try this, replace the shaft that goes through the housing at the same time--it's likely worn, too.
                  Timm Turrentine

                  Brewerywright,
                  Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                  Enterprise. Oregon.

                  Comment


                  • Bottling Barrel Aged Beer

                    Attention GAI Filler/Capper Users,

                    Has anyone had any experience with bottling Barrel-Aged beers; furthermore, safe guarding the bowl so that stainless steel gaskets do not get clogged with barrel adjuncts. We use screen gaskets when racking from the barrel to TD; and we place coarse screen gaskets inline to the bottler. Some of these have purees that are passing through to the bowl. The only thing I can think of is to pull the beer from the side of the brite tank.





                    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                    We've been having some serious crowner problems lately on our GAI 3003A Bier. We were rarely able to go more than a couple of cases between crown jams, and sometimes only got a few bottles between jams.

                    This was bent/mashed/overlapped crowns in the crowner head, sometimes resulting in exploding bottles.

                    I'd tried adjusting everything. No joy. I tried buying a whole nest lower crowner assy from Prospero--wrong part. No one at Pros was any help. I was at wit's end.

                    I was fiddling with the lever that retracts the crowns a couple of weeks ago, and noticed the bushings were loose, and the lever had some slop to it, so I ordered new bushings.

                    Forget that--the bushings cannot be removed. I tried everything. They don't come out.

                    So I ordered the assy that holds the bushings, with bushings installed: 417-5305.

                    Here it is, in place:

                    [ATTACH]44717[/ATTACH]

                    We're now getting at most a couple of crown jams in a long day of many hundred cases! $54 and problem solved!

                    If you try this, replace the shaft that goes through the housing at the same time--it's likely worn, too.

                    Comment


                    • Experience with bottling barrel-aged sours? Why yes! That's the only kind of beer we bottle...

                      As for keeping particulate out of the bottling line, we've found several solutions over the years:

                      Now we pass everything through a filter to get rid of the bulk of the solids, but it sounds like that's not in the cards for you. Before we filtered everything we found the following to work:

                      1) Rack out of the barrels with screens on the end of the racking cane (screen gaskets in-line work too)

                      2) Let the beer settle in the tank - chill if you have to

                      3) ALWAYS go out of the racking arm on the tank (if you have one)

                      4) Put a sterilized nylon in-line off of the tank. If it clogs, pull it out and put in a new one. Even after filtration we use one...never know if a clump of sugar or yeast that didn't get homogenized will want to pop on through. The nylon catches it.

                      If it clogs all the time (it might with puree, we don't use any so I wouldn't know) set up a bypass in your line with a nylon on each side. When one clogs, switch the flow to the other side and change out the clogged nylon. Keep switching back and forth so you don't have to shut down the bottling just to change out the clog.

                      Good luck! Let me know if you need any of that clarified

                      -Richard

                      Originally posted by dowlingbeck View Post
                      Attention GAI Filler/Capper Users,

                      Has anyone had any experience with bottling Barrel-Aged beers; furthermore, safe guarding the bowl so that stainless steel gaskets do not get clogged with barrel adjuncts. We use screen gaskets when racking from the barrel to TD; and we place coarse screen gaskets inline to the bottler. Some of these have purees that are passing through to the bowl. The only thing I can think of is to pull the beer from the side of the brite tank.

                      Comment


                      • Anyone have experience with an Inverter Fault?
                        eatdrinkandbemerry
                        Jon Hill, Brewer
                        Atlantic Brewing Co
                        jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bennybrew View Post
                          Anyone have experience with an Inverter Fault?
                          We have had that due to overloading the main motor frequency drive. It can be reset by power cycling. It could be some kind of interference, or it could be ongoing friction is likely poorly lubricated lifter pistons. (Do you see any hesitation or stuttering as the filler bowl is rotating?)

                          Once you are sure there is nothing jammed anywhere or anything else causing interference, try running with the lifters off. Then try really lubrication them thoroughly to see if that helps.

                          Comment


                          • Clean and lube of the pedestals was already on our plan of the day today so hopefully that is it.

                            Originally posted by PFL View Post
                            We have had that due to overloading the main motor frequency drive. It can be reset by power cycling. It could be some kind of interference, or it could be ongoing friction is likely poorly lubricated lifter pistons. (Do you see any hesitation or stuttering as the filler bowl is rotating?)

                            Once you are sure there is nothing jammed anywhere or anything else causing interference, try running with the lifters off. Then try really lubrication them thoroughly to see if that helps.
                            eatdrinkandbemerry
                            Jon Hill, Brewer
                            Atlantic Brewing Co
                            jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bennybrew View Post
                              Anyone have experience with an Inverter Fault?
                              We were experiencing an Inverter Fault and it was as simple as the rear door by the crowner wasn't closed all the way. It's strange, we know, but for some reason, if that saftey switch in the door latch isn't closed all the way (and it's only that door), then it gives us an inverter fault. Worth checking to make sure all doors are closing all the way.

                              Adam T.
                              Zipline Brewing Co.
                              Lincoln, NE

                              Comment


                              • We've seen both the "Inverter Blocked" and "Wrong Applied Voltage" alarms on our 3003A Bier. This sometimes just happens out of the blue, with no apparent cause. Re-booting the machine almost always clears the alarm.
                                Timm Turrentine

                                Brewerywright,
                                Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                                Enterprise. Oregon.

                                Comment

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