Acid Rinse Necessary With Acidic Sanitizer?

[JSChicago]

Hi everybody,

If I use a built caustic for cleaning, in moderate-to-soft water (~35 ppm chlorine), does an acidic sanitizer (e.g. StarSan) eliminate the need for a separate acid rinse?

Thanks,

John

[JSChicago]

Sorry, I meant 35 ppm Calcium. That makes more sense, huh?

[Trickster]

I believe that a big part of good cleaning in a brewery is the change in pH. For example if you have an Acid rinse, then caustic rinse, and then a acid sanitizer you would be changing you pH 3 times (Acid, Base, Acid). Most bacteria will not be able to survive that amount of pH change in the matter of an hour, along with proper temperature cycles. Hope this helps.

Cheers

[GeorgeJ]

from my understanding, acid inbetween caustic and i.e. peroxyacetic acid.. is the prevention of beer stone primarily.

usually i have done an acid cycle in between every 4 or 5 brews to keep scale down.
doing it every time you brew seems a little too eager to waste chemicals and money.
Rinse, Caustic, Rinse, Peroxyacetic acid has always been fine for me in the past 6 years. Some people like to rinse after peroxide, but i feel it's dangerous as unless all your water is UV treated, you could have all kinds of nasties in it.

However, you can never have things too clean in a brewery. but i feel it is a little waste of time and resources to do an acid wash every time.

[campbell.brian]

An acid by itself, including Phosphoric Acid or Citric Acid, is not a sanitizer. These acid solutions can support beer-spoiling contaminants and be the source of a brewery-wide infection. Sanitizers containing Phosphoric Acid also contain an anionic or cationic surfactant to give the product sanitizing properties.

I do not recommend acid anionic sanitizers for use in brewery CIP sanitation, as they have poor efficacy against molds and yeasts. They are also very expensive due to the cost of Phosphoric Acid.

Also, the use of foaming products in CIP applications is counter-productive. Foam reduces impingment and liquid contact and increases rinse times and water usage. Products used in brewery CIP applications should be non-foaming and may contain defoaming additives.

The use of designated acid CIP cleaners is for the removal of calcium oxalate beer stone (Phosphoric and Nitric Acids) and for the passivation of stainless steel (Nitric and Citric Acids), not sanitation. Also, acid CIP cleaners will not remove silica scales from Sodium Metasilicate-based products.

A designated sanitizer should always be used, even if an acid CIP cleaner is used after caustic.

[Mike Elliott]

Brian,

What will remove silica scale? I have some on the outsides of tanks that I can't get rid of.

Cheers,
Mike