Pushing Co2 through copper

[JonChristiansen]

What are people's thoughts on using copper for CO2? I'm just beginning my research, but all insights would be greatly appreciated....

Cheers,
Jon Christiansen
Lucette Brewing Co
Menomonie, WI

[kugeman]

My first thought is, why? Copper is expensive...

[Natrat]

Copper is ok. Usually used with Swagelok fittings.

Having said that, one of the best and cheapest solutions is to use PEX-AL-PEX, which is an aluminum strengthened pex pipe used for radiant floor heating.

It's a bit of a pain...you can bend it into place, but once you bend it...DON'T try to re-bend it! It goes onto standard PEX fittings with standard crimpers, and is rated to 300 psi (the stuff I bought, anyway). One advantage is that you can use long sweeping curves instead of 90 deg fittings and that will eliminate many restrictions.

The only thing that is really nice about copper is that it wicks heat well. So if your reg is close to freezing up, the copper acts as a bit of a heat sink and you can push the reg a bit further, if you know what I mean

I've seen black iron pipe used as well, and soft lines (like goodyear pliovic or similar) are common, too. As long as it's rated for the pressure you need at temperatures down to -40.

Nat

[Matt Dog]

Copper is nice for CO2. But as mentioned very expensive. Plus you may have to paint or cover it depending on your local codes. Our health Dept. has a real anti copper bias and none can be exposed in the brewery. The more I look at the PEX mentioned in the previous post the better I like the idea.

[JonChristiansen]

thanks for the help guys. much appreciated..
jon

[BrewinLou]

Just to clarify...

"PEX fittings with standard crimpers, and is rated to 300 psi"

Can you specify which type of pex can handle that pressure? Most standard off the shelf pex I have looked at have a much lower pressure rating. That pressure rating drops real quick at higher temp as well.

A quick google search for me turned up ...""ViegaPEX was formerly known as Vanguard PEX tubing. ViegaPEX Tubing is rated at 100 psi and 180 degrees F and 160 psi at 73 degrees F and is available in red, blue, and white""


Also is that a hydrostatic pressure rating or gas rating. There is a big difference. You may also want to specify which type of Pex you are referring to.

[Natrat]

Just to clarify...

"PEX fittings with standard crimpers, and is rated to 300 psi"

Can you specify which type of pex can handle that pressure? Most standard off the shelf pex I have looked at have a much lower pressure rating. That pressure rating drops real quick at higher temp as well.

A quick google search for me turned up ...""ViegaPEX was formerly known as Vanguard PEX tubing. ViegaPEX Tubing is rated at 100 psi and 180 degrees F and 160 psi at 73 degrees F and is available in red, blue, and white""


Also is that a hydrostatic pressure rating or gas rating. There is a big difference. You may also want to specify which type of Pex you are referring to.

I thought I did. It's called PEX-AL-PEX and it is DIFFERENT from standard PEX...although you can use standard PEX crimpers, as it is sized similarly.

PEX-AL-PEX has an aluminum tube sandwiched between an outer and inner layer of crosslinked polyethylene. The aluminum tube gives it superior structural durability compared to PEX. It also holds its shape once bent into place.

It's usually used for hydronic floors where OXY-PEX is too thick or hard to fit in. Typically on an upper floor with a layer of thinset or grout over it.

So...don't put pressurized gas in PEX. But PAP works great. And I've even seen stainless crimp rings for it, though I believe the standard rings are stronger.

Nat

[Natrat]

Just a quick note to the above post. I have used standard crimps and stainless rings on PEX AL PEX, but a good plumber friend of mine pointed out that the ID and OD of AL PEX is different, and there are special fittings available for AL PEX.

Doh!

Sorry about that mistake!

Nat

[TGTimm]

All of our primary CO2 lines are copper. Don't ask me why. At one time, we used full pressure from 50lb cylinders--800-1,200 psi--then stepped down to use pressure at the usage points. Soft-soldered lines held up just fine for years, but our point-of-use regulators didn't last long at all.

Our secondary delivery lines are Parker Parflex PE. These lines cannot handle high pressure at all!

We finally installed a primary regulator at the source--now 500 lb Dewar flasks producing up to 350 psi. Since reducing primary pressure to 70 psi, we've had no problems.

My suggestion would be to simply use a primary regulator at your source to reduce CO2 pressure to >100 psi. I can't think of any brewery use for pressures above 40 psi, anyway. This will allow you to use regular PEX or anything else you please.

TGTimm