getting a bunch of foaming on new brew

[chris reed]

we're trying to smooth out the flow to the filler to reduce agitation. any ideas on pumps that work well? also dissolved O2 seems to cause foaming. how do you measure dissolved O2 and what helps in reducing the O2 before it gets to the filler? thanks

[dick murton]

The chance of it being oxygen as such are virtually nil.

Foaming at this point of the process is always primarily CO2.

But that means you have got something causing CO2 breakout. Check for high temperature - over 4 C is likely to lead to severe problems, but colder is better. You may have too much CO2 in "solution" for the temperature to actually hold it in solution. Lots of temperature / CO2 charts around. Check the Meheen website for one place.

You may not have sufficient pressure on the system, even if the temperature is OK - again check temperature pressure charts. Too much agitation by using an oversize pump? Check you are not sucking air in at the pump or other joints.

Unlikely, but you could have contaminants causing gushing, calcium oxalate for instance (malt contamination is virtually unheard of nowadays)

The pump has to be the correct design with virtually oxygen proof seals, but you can use bog standard centrifugal, or positive displacement pumps. I wouldn't go for PD pumps because there is a risk to the rest of the system if you dead end them by stopping filling, even for a short time, with the pump running, unless you have a pressure relief valve. Whatever you get needs to be sized for flow, pressure at inlet to pump and required outlet pressure.

Oxygen reduction - flush through pipes and pumps with high flow rate water, preferably deoxygenated, but even tap water is better than leaving air in the pipes, or flush through with water then blast a bit of CO2 through to clear out the water - but watch for CO2 in the area where you vent it off.

[gitchegumee]

Agree with Dick's post. Well put. Myself, I don't like PD beer pumps anywhere. I'll side with using a traditional centrifugal pump as long as it's sized properly. And sizing properly isn't hard. Also one of those things you should probably learn if you don't know already. There's a few good posts on this site as well any many others that deal with the subject. If you know how the lines on a pump curve relate, you can select your motor and your impeller size correctly and you're good to go for smooth beer transfers. As far as reducing O2 before the filler; that's a whole chapter on purging tanks & lines, deaerating push & rectification water, filter operations, maintenance, and more. Dick hit the highlights. The brewer at my first gig had an SOP using boiling water through the lines, pump, polishing filter, and filler bowl with the fill valves manually open. Boiling will take out most of the oxygen from water. These lines were all kept & stored packed in santizer before the boiling water. Everything got so hot that I think even the floor drains in the bottling room were sanitized. Overkill? This was after a lactobacillus infection....

[froptus]

Only use a pump if you absolutely have to use one. Otherwise use CO2 pressure to push the beer from the tank to the filler. Keep it as cold as possible and make sure the CO2 volumes are within parameters. Also keep the pressure in the tank as high as the tank and the fill machine will allow. O2 isn't your problem when it comes to foaming.

Good Luck.

[KWLSD]

I'm guessing from your post that you're seeing a DO increase between bright tank and filler? As has already been said, pumps are a common source of oxygen pick-up due to leaking seals on the inlet side. This can happen without seeing any visible liquid leakage simply because when the pump's working, it's not going to be forcing beer out of a leak.

If possible, don't go for a pump/control that comes straight in at working speed, but instead ramps up.

Filling lines with deaerated liquor is the best way to ensure you are removing all possible air from your system; but one proviso - if you have any horizontal pipework that is higher than other parts of the run, make sure there is no air being trapped.

I agree with everything that's already been said that excessive foaming is more likely to be due to CO2 coming out of solution, which will be related to either pressure or temperature issues (most likely the former).