Craft Brew Ingredient Quantities

[Hop Hack]

Hello All,
I, as many others who lurk here have many questions for the pros. My question has to do with how many ingredients do you use for many of your beers.
Do many Craft Brewers continue to use 4,5,6 or more grains for beers or does it get difficult to make all of them work when brewing a larger quantity?
Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for all the valuable you share.
Ed

[liammckenna]

Grist compositions

for my house regulars:

stout: 5 different grains
red: 4 different grains
pale: 4 different grains
wheat: 3 different grains

With most of these beers two of the grains are differing pale malts. I like to blend my base malts usually.

Pax.

Liam

[Matt Dog]

I could probably count about 15 or so specialty malts in my stock right now. Maybe 9 different hops and there would be more if many varieties were not sold out! Most brewers use a standard base malt for the majority of their beers because if you only have one silo its more cost effective. But as Liam stated you can blend base malts and we do order say Wyerman Pils for the Pilsner and different things like that. Its really no harder to use more ingredients in a craft brewery than in a home brewery other than cost factors and 55lb sacks are a bit heavier than a 1 lb sack of specialty malt

[Hop Hack]

Thanks for your replies.
I guess I was looking to see if Craft Brewers continue to be Craft Brewers when it counts. It could be easy to cut corners when money and time are tight. Fight the good fight.
Ed

[WitsEnd]

I wouldn't let the variety of ingredients used per batch dictate how "craft" a beer is.
Are you really going to taste that 0.5% of Munich?
There becomes a point where more isn't always better, or even detectable. Coming from the homebrew side, I've seen many recipes with a pinch of this and a dash of that. Seems like people will just add grains willy nilly without any thought of what it might do for the beer, if anything.

[Mills]

I think that you do more with less. Simplifying your inventory makes things easier. There is always the impulse to add more and more ingredients to your beers, but perhaps more effective to celebrate the the complexity of a minimalist approach with grain bills. You can do amazing things with pale ale malt, british crystal, yeast, and water. That being said, I use a total of six malts in my brewery to brew our Blonde, Irish Red, Sweet Stout, IPA, Cal Common, and Brown.

Cheers!

[gray31]

I use 12 different malts in six different brews and most cross over between the brews. I agree no one is going to notice a couple of ounces of Munich, or vienne. Some brewers do go a bit overboard on their malt bill. If you are stocking malts just to say that you use them and don't contribute much to the beer, then it would be just a waste of money and space. As fore hops I try to keep only about four different types and only one for bittering. Some just don't store well and I prefer using the hops as soon as possible so they don't lose too much bitterness or aroma. I look at it like this, is anyone going to really notice that I used two different Bittering hops, three different aroma hops that all have similar aromas or that one overpowers the others. Then dry hopped with three different hops. I just see it as a waste, and only useful for impressing beer snobs( no offence the the beer snobs, geeks who read this).

[thatjonguy]

I use 12 different malts in six different brews and most cross over between the brews. I agree no one is going to notice a couple of ounces of Munich, or vienne. Some brewers do go a bit overboard on their malt bill. If you are stocking malts just to say that you use them and don't contribute much to the beer, then it would be just a waste of money and space. As fore hops I try to keep only about four different types and only one for bittering. Some just don't store well and I prefer using the hops as soon as possible so they don't lose too much bitterness or aroma. I look at it like this, is anyone going to really notice that I used two different Bittering hops, three different aroma hops that all have similar aromas or that one overpowers the others. Then dry hopped with three different hops. I just see it as a waste, and only useful for impressing beer snobs( no offence the the beer snobs, geeks who read this).

I agree, controlling costs in the raw materials section is very important. Some malts cost more and if one is only using a small amount that would have a debatable impact on the finished product, why continue to waste time and money on something that has no impact.

The same goes for hops, pick the best bang for the buck bittering hop and use it. Flavor and aroma hops I tend to stick with very bold American hops that can overpower other hops if used in the right amount. I have alway been a fan of Bell's Two Hearted, if memory serves me, that is a 100% Centenial hopped beer.

Just like culinary arts, more is not always (and rarely is) better. Look at the history of brewing in some of Beliguim's Trappist breweries. They did not have some of the malts we have today and have been producing world class beer for centuries. Also, too many flavors from raw ingredients mixed with the flavors from fermentation can lead some to consumers having a confused palate. Remember craft beer occupies 5% of the US beer market and although growing "beer geeks" make up a small percentage of the craft beer market.

For me, I look at two popular regional breweries (to me), Summit and Boulevard. Their standard and flagship beers are good. I drink them because I don't really have to think about an assault on my tounge. However, I turn to their Unchained (Summit) and Smokestack (Boulevard) series when I am looking for something more.

That model respresents (to me) the best way to approach this industry. We have to recognize that our market is evolving, however remains the same. What I mean is that although our market share is increasing, we still have those consumers that are choosing their first craft beer products and also we are converting more consumers towards beer geekdom. So pull out the big gun every once in a while and have some fun.

But remember what pays the bills, so you can continue doing what you love and are passionate about.

[francisv]

Looks like if you really can't taste smaller quantities of Munich or Vienna, it's better to use theses as base malts in lieu of Pilsner/Pale? If you do, will the drop of diastatic power come into play here?

[nateo]

But remember what pays the bills, so you can continue doing what you love and are passionate about.

That is so true. Re: Boulevard. They're a great example of using a cash cow to pay for brewing "fun" beers. Up until very recently 70% of their production was their unfiltered wheat beer. The success of that beer allowed them to open a new macrolager-capable brewery to produce their main-line products, allowing them to dedicate their old brewery to their Smokestack and one-off beers.

They went with a standard macrolager-type brewery just in case the whole "craft beer" thing fizzled out, so they'd still be able to pay the bills.

[LuskusDelph]

...They went with a standard macrolager-type brewery just in case the whole "craft beer" thing fizzled out, so they'd still be able to pay the bills.

They are VERY smart people.

[Kev7555]

Craft beer thing fizzle out??? Laughing out loud.

Back to the original subject of the thread....most of my stock house beers contain very little in the way of specialty malts. Several consist of only base and one specialty , usually one or another variety of caramel. Most of my wheat beers are only wheat and pils, sometimes a little caramel. Several of my stock ales are only base malt, as is my pils. This has absolutely nothing to do with trying to save on material cost. I merely enjoy the simplicity of crafting a beautiful product with just the basics. Itruly believe these brews taste better then my earlier renditions which contained more elaborate grain bills.

Our porter is an exception with base malt, two caramel malts and no less then five other specialty malts. I've never found any other way to make the porter I love.

-Kev

[Gordvan]

It is also common to round to full or half sack of malt, depending on your batch size. also take a bucket and measure a round amount say 5 kg and mark a line. then you can fill to the line. no sense spending hours puting together your malt bill. intense malts like black or chocolate should still be measured.