Help me with my hefeweizen

[Judd]

Hey all, I need help with a hefe that until recently has been perfect and trouble free for over a year. We've made a few changes recently which I'm assuming must be the cause even though I don't know why. I'll break it down:

WLP 380 (hefe IV) yeast, ferm temp 66F for less sweet banana and more spicy citrus
Typical OG: 1.045 (yeah we don't use plato, wanna fight about it?)
Old Typical FG: ~1.012

CHANGES MADE(to all of our beers):
Switched from pils to 2-row for our base malt
Began adding white laps Servomyces to boil
Slightly increased knockout O2 level

PROBLEM:
The yeast which is of course low floc is now not falling out AT ALL. Before the changes I wouldn't say our hefe was clear but on the clearer side of a hefe most of the time. After a month in a keg it would almost all fall out. Since the changes, its a yeast milkshake, and stays that way even in the kegs. It simply isn't floccing at all anymore and we don't understand why. On top of the increased suspended yeast, the FG has dropped to 1.007 on the past two batches, no doubt a result of the yeast nutrient and increased O2. We actually wanted this result but in combination with massive yeast flavor, the new dryness results in a more bitter, phenolic, chalky hefe which we don't like.

So that's pretty much it. As I said we made these changes to all of our beers and the hefe is the only one to have been negatively affected. One note as to why we switched from pils to only 2-row base...we had heard that the more highly modified 2-row might lead to clearer beers quicker(we don't filter). So far tho we haven't noticed this to be true at all, and certainly not in the hefe. I'm willing to switch back to pils because I think it tastes a little better but want to know if is likely the issue or if maybe the nutrient is causing it. The servomyces is clearly improving attenuation by a lot in all our beers, and leading to healthier yeast, which should actually aid flocculation, so basically I'm dumbfounded at these results. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers.

[tomdible]

Hey all, I need help with a hefe that until recently has been perfect and trouble free for over a year. We've made a few changes recently which I'm assuming must be the cause even though I don't know why. I'll break it down:

WLP 380 (hefe IV) yeast, ferm temp 66F for less sweet banana and more spicy citrus
Typical OG: 1.045 (yeah we don't use plato, wanna fight about it?)
Old Typical FG: ~1.012

CHANGES MADE(to all of our beers):
Switched from pils to 2-row for our base malt
Began adding white laps Servomyces to boil
Slightly increased knockout O2 level

PROBLEM:
The yeast which is of course low floc is now not falling out AT ALL. Before the changes I wouldn't say our hefe was clear but on the clearer side of a hefe most of the time. After a month in a keg it would almost all fall out. Since the changes, its a yeast milkshake, and stays that way even in the kegs. It simply isn't floccing at all anymore and we don't understand why. On top of the increased suspended yeast, the FG has dropped to 1.007 on the past two batches, no doubt a result of the yeast nutrient and increased O2. We actually wanted this result but in combination with massive yeast flavor, the new dryness results in a more bitter, phenolic, chalky hefe which we don't like.

So that's pretty much it. As I said we made these changes to all of our beers and the hefe is the only one to have been negatively affected. One note as to why we switched from pils to only 2-row base...we had heard that the more highly modified 2-row might lead to clearer beers quicker(we don't filter). So far tho we haven't noticed this to be true at all, and certainly not in the hefe. I'm willing to switch back to pils because I think it tastes a little better but want to know if is likely the issue or if maybe the nutrient is causing it. The servomyces is clearly improving attenuation by a lot in all our beers, and leading to healthier yeast, which should actually aid flocculation, so basically I'm dumbfounded at these results. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Couldn't you do test batches, eliminating one of the changes per test, to nail down the cause?

[el_mocoso]

Have you repitched the same yeast for all off batches? Might be infected...

[lhall]

It sounds like you are getting more yeast growth from the increased oxygen and the addition of yeast nutrient, which would account for the lower final gravity. Try reducing your yeast pitch rate.

[Judd]

Oh I forgot to mention with this beer we always start with fresh yeast from WL, and we always underpitch - 14bbl pitchable...brew 20bbl on it the first day, then brew another 30 on it the second. So it's not an infection or overpitching. I wouldn't really want to start with less than the 14bbl amount.

[Matt Dog]

You can really underpitch a hefe and get great results. We would use White Labs 1Bbl pitch in a 10 Bbl w quick starts and great flavor. Hefe yeast is pretty aggressive, try knocking the O2 back on that one and since your not repitching ditch the servo for that beer.

[Judd]

It sounds like you are getting more yeast growth from the increased oxygen and the addition of yeast nutrient, which would account for the lower final gravity. Try reducing your yeast pitch rate.

You can really underpitch a hefe and get great results. We would use White Labs 1Bbl pitch in a 10 Bbl w quick starts and great flavor. Hefe yeast is pretty aggressive, try knocking the O2 back on that one and since your not repitching ditch the servo for that beer.

Makes sense. I'm gonna dial back the O2 on the next one. The only thing is that we are going to start harvesting and repitching, so it will probably still need some servo, but maybe not as much.

[CDangerBrew]

We recently did a Hefe, the first batch with the new strain did exactly the same thing you are explaining. It would not clear up in the BBT, we ended up adding more finings (after 10 days in the BBT) to the first batch to get it to clear to an acceptable level. We are now on the fourth generation and everything after the first was business as usual.

[brewmaster 2011]

what is the ph of the the wort after boil? lower ph will cause the yeast to floc out sooner. on another note make sure that the yeast you are using is not a top floc yeast. you will not get the same results for the 2nd generation as you did with the first because the healthy yeast is at the top and will not floc out enought. these are major factors in brewing a weisse beer. you are right about the 2 row it lowers the ph more the pilsner. i use only wheat vienna and munich malt to hel with flocciulation.

[BelgianBrews]

Reducing your aeration back to your previous level is what I would try. Excess aeration can cause yeast to stay in suspension longer, and can even cause the yeast to switch its focus from ethanol fermentation to cell growth. Sure you are getting a lower final gravity, no doubt the result of adding the servomyces. Reduce your aeration and you will have less yeast produced in fermentation, and less yeast in suspension in the final beer. If reducing your aeration does not do the trick, I really have no idea. Also, I'm not familiar with the yeast strain you are using, but most hefe yeast is true top cropping yeast, in which case your fermentation profile will change on successive re-pitchings. I have heard of brewers that use a different pitch rate and/or fermentation temperature and/or aeration level to achieve the same profile they get in the first generation. Good luck and please post how you get the issue resolved.