Two problems with my Pale Ale...

[BelgianBrews]

I recently made a super hoppy pale ale with cascade, styrian golding and apollo. I have let 5 people try it out of the CCV, and they all think it is great, hoppy, and very citrusy. The problem is that I don't like it. I am getting too much of a green onion flavor from the apollo, similar to the flavor I get from columbus and summit. The beer was dry hopped warm for four days with equal parts cascade and apollo before crashing, at a total rate of 1 pound hops per BBL finished beer.

My other problem is that the yeast will not floc at all! I have used plenty of non-flocculent Belgian and hefeweizen strains, and my Australian ale yeast is behaving like a hefeweizen yeast.

This is what I am planning to do, I would really like more ideas on solving these issues.

I'm getting a couple boxes of centennial later this week. This thursday my pale ale will be 15 days old, 5 days cold crashed. I have been draining yeast every day since cold crashing. The tank is at 14 psi and 38F (my CCVs don't get down to 32).

After sanitizing another CCV and purging O2, I am going to dump in centennial pellets at the rate of .5# per BBL. Then pressurize the vessel to 14 psi, attach a CO2 balancing line, and transfer the beer by gravity and then by a centrifugal pump into the new vessel with the dry hops. I'll keep the tank cold crashed and pressurized at carbonation levles, and transfer into the bright tank (hopefully in about a week) when I think it is clear enough.

My thinking is that the citrusy flavors from centennial will overwhelm some of the unwanted flavors I get from the apollo. I'm hoping the dry hops also act as a natural fining agent, by clinging to the yeast, and the increased mass causing both to then fall to the bottom quicker.

I have a DE filter, but I know it will greatly reduce my hop aroma. Also, I don't use isinglass or other fining agents in the fermentor.

Any thoughts, ideas, advice? Am I crazy to think this will work?

[einhorn]

Sounds like a lot of work, time & money to change something that customers like. Your personal sensory to the beer might not be as bad to other people, some may even enjoy it.

If it's a batch that will be gone in 4-6 weeks, I say don't sweat it. In some cases, renaming the beer or mixing a bloody mary with the beer (for example) might even make people try it and 'find' the flavour that you perceive to be annoying.

[Bham Brewer]

I agree with einhorn, if you have been getting a positive response, just go with it... I have, on occasion, put beers on that weren't my taste but the public lapped up with great speed and intensity. I think, as brewers, it is our duty to make a quality beer that some section of the public will be happy to pay money for... this does not mean EVERY one of those beers has to be to our taste. After all, isn't that kind of the idea behind the whole thing anyway; Catering to the wide variety of tastes and not one monolithic blandness?

[liammckenna]

We dry hop our pale in CCV all the time.

It is a process to capture the aroma (oil) fraction at such cold temperatures. It takes time...or...we circulate the CCV every day for 15 minutes over a minimum of three days. Speeds the process immensely at such temperatures.

You can also try daily rousing with CO2 from the centre cone but foaming in the tank may be an issue.

I don't think that this will help with your yeast settling issue.

You may wish to consider fining or filtration for this batch.

Pax.

Liam

[schmogger]

I agree with Bham Brewer and einhorn ( except for the part about bloody mary mix). I also do not think that you will be able to cover up the flavor of the Apollo hops that easy. The dank hops like Apollo and Summit are very hard to cover up. Save your Centennial and make another batch using them in a few weeks.

[porter]

In my experience, a lot of that green onion flavor will fade out.

I use a lot of Summit and get the same oniony-ness in the FV but, after about 3 days post carbonation it begins to fade and by day 11 in the serving tank- its pretty much gone and our IPA turns into awesome.

Not sure if this will help with the Apollo as I didn't like the trial tests we did with that variety. Too vegetal and dank for me.

I'm pretty sure that your theory about the hops working as a fining agent are bunk. I also can't diagnose why the yeast hasn't floc'd out w/out more info...

That said, more hops can't hurt. If I don't like the way a hoppy beer is progressing, I usually dry hop it excessively and tweak the recipe next time. Centennial is a favorite for remedying an off IPA.

[BelgianBrews]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Porter, I hope you are right about the green onion flavor fading. My worry actually has been the oppositte, that as the citrus flavors fade the dankness from the apollo will show itself more. Hopefully over the next few days that flavor will fade ( I carbonate in the FV). einhorn, Bham Brewer, and schmogger, I may go with your advice and just roll with it as is, since people seem to like the beer, and no one else seems to notice any green onion flavor, or anything besides citrus and pine.

Liam, how would you describe the flavor you get from your cold dry hop procedure? Because my pale ale is only 5.5%, I am a little concerned that I don't have enough alcohol to be able to suck up a lot of the oils that would improve the aroma. I don't want to just get a bunch of grassy flavors that make the beer taste like a hoppy mess without any continuity. Given that my beer was already dry hopped at 1 pound per BBL warm, do you think I would be overwhelming the beer with another dry hop cold at .5 pounds per BBL?