TTB vs. State

[frazeejf]

We are building a common brewery with a tasting room. Since we plan to serve beer in the tasting room directly from 10 bbl serving tanks our TTB specialist is saying we need a brewpub license from the TTB, rather than a standard brewery license. Our concern is that the state will force us to have a brewpub license and thus sell food and have a kitchen, etc. We have no interest or money to build and run a restaurant. Apparently the TTB is cracking down on brewery tasting rooms and how they serve and determine tax on beer. They know that many tasting rooms are in violation. Have any of the other tasting room applicants had this issue? Has anybody received a brewpub license from the TTB and a regular brewery/manufacturer license from the state without any issues? We have been told by the TTB that the state should not care about what type of TTB license you are issued. They are two totally separate licenses and they don't have to match. We feel uncertain about just taking their word for it. We are in Colorado.

Thanks - John
303-522-0995

[eric.seufert]

John,

Did you get any closure on this? Everything you said shocks me. I am in colorado as well.

Eric

[Triptych]

I am interested in how this got settled as well because our specialist initially told us the same thing... we are still waiting to hear back.

[eric.seufert]

Are you in CO too? I am reading up on this, and I think a brewers notice is a notice and should not matter what the Feds think you are doing.

[frazeejf]

I was able to convince the TTB that we did not need a brewpub license. However, I am not sure it will be so easy going forward? I feel like we might have been one of the last to squeeze by? Maybe I am wrong? It may just be the luck of the draw on the specislist you get. It's all in how you describe how you will tax determine your beer and what is on premise and off premise. Tax determined beer must be off premise and can't cross back through the premise (this includes draft beer lines coming out of a tax determined brite tank or serving tank). Our TTB diagram was very detailed (this is what happens when engineers decide to start a brewery). Probably too detailed. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
John Frazee
Founder/Brewer
Gravity Brewing
Louisville, CO

[thatjonguy]

I don't recall seeing anything regarding on and off premise in any of the regulations. Are you referring to the non-tax and tax determined area? And describing how you will determine tax and how you will keep them separate?

Just looking to avoid issues as we almost have a building and funding. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Triptych]

If you follow the TTB logic, your tasting room should be separate from the brewery. And according to TTB regs, no tax determined beer can ever be in the brewery unless it is being returned to be destroyed.

Those are their operating guidelines, from there you get drift and variation from one specialist to another, supervisor exceptions, etc. in terms of specific implementations (shared cold space, etc.)

[Mindhop]

We are making two walkin coolers at our brewery. Any kegs for distribution will come out of one cooler and put on the distributors truck. It will be taxed as it leaves. When we take kegs out of the same cooler for the tasting room we will pay the taxes and place it in our small cooler. They want to see how you will seperate the kegs to keep track of their money. I think this system will keep the TTB happy. Just my .02.