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Thread: Investors

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    6

    Investors

    Investors...

    What kind of people/companies are generally the best to approach first when looking for investment money?

    What is generally the payment scenario? Are most investors looking for immediate returns, or are they thinking about long term return and willing to wait for a profitable business?

    Again, I'm just throwing out questions, feel free to comment... or not.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Madison, WI
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    I suspect that friends and family are the most common source of investment capital for startup breweries, but they certainly aren't getting it done for me. Then again, as somebody put it to me today, the cure for cancer would have a hard time raising capital in this economy. One thing is certain: the people who solicit financing on this website are f'ed if they're ever investigated by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission or the securities administrations of any states their investors reside in (unless they've "gone public" via a lengthy and expensive registration process). You can read more about it here:

    http://www.sec.gov/info/smallbus/qasbsec.htm

    In other words, you won't have many legal options outside of friends and family (and the people they know, the people those people know, etc.) unless you register a public offering.

    As for your other questions, investors and payment plans will come in all shapes and sizes. It's unlikely that a brewery will be able to provide a quick return, so you can probably rule out anyone looking for a quick buck. I'm planning on sharing distributed profits in proportion to what each investor contributes, but my business partner and I are treating our up-front work as fixed financial contributions that factor into the profit sharing (i.e. sweat equity). I can't speak for anyone else, though, and I haven't succeeded yet, so don't pay too much attention to me.

    Joe

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6
    Thanks Joe,

    So legally, one cannot solicit investors w/o offering "official" shares of the business. Interesting. I wonder how many people actually do that in any business startup?

    I'm sure that a new brewery wouldn't be profitable for a while. A good business plan would lay that out more specifically, and hopefully the projections would come to fruition. I guess I was wondering whether outside investors (excuse me...shareholders ) would expect to be paid something, even before there was anything to pay them with. And would they expect to be paid evenly with an owner/operator who maybe invests less money, but much, much more sweat.

    Interesting discussion.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by coastalbrew
    Investors...

    What kind of people/companies are generally the best to approach first when looking for investment money?

    What is generally the payment scenario? Are most investors looking for immediate returns, or are they thinking about long term return and willing to wait for a profitable business?

    Again, I'm just throwing out questions, feel free to comment... or not.
    Rich, friendly ones!
    www.chattahoocheebrewingcompany.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    211
    Investors don't need to own part of the business, but I think private loans are still considered securities. Loans are unfamiliar territory for me, though, because I'm much more terrified by fixed interest payments than paying percentages of profit.

    I'm trying to raise $600K-$900K, but my business partner and I are giving ourselves a combined $200K in sweat equity. That means profit percentages will be based on an initial "worth" of $800K-$1.1M. If we end up opening the pub with $800K of capital, a $100K investment will receive 10% of distributed profits (100*100K/(800K+200K)). The sweat equity itself will be worth 20% of distributed profits (100*200K/(800K+200K)). I've seen startup brewery owners give themselves higher percentages of sweat equity, but they usually involve some sort of priority return for investors (e.g. sweat equity isn't counted in the profit distribution until investors receive 100% returns on their investments).

    As far as investor expectations go, you get to define the terms up-front based on how well you think the business will perform. Potential investors will either accept your terms or reject them, and you may have to adjust your strategy as you go.

    Joe
    Last edited by jwalts; 02-10-2009 at 06:54 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    6
    I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has gone official and offered real, registered shares of the business to prospective investors.(I won't ask about those who didn't )

    How long did the process take? Huge pain, or just a small issue in the big scheme of startup?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Shasta Lake, CA
    Posts
    24

    Private Placement 504D, 505D or 506D

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_placement There are 100's of other sites re: Private Placement just google the term itself "Private Placement" or "504 D", etc...

    The above link is a quick read on a method available for raising capital without registering and should meet most of the needs for a small start up breweries capital requirements from year to year.

    We had an attorney draw up a Private Placement Memorandum, issued A stocks for the operating/material/management (partners basically) side and B stocks for investors. In other words, the A side are decision makers - the original partnership - and the B side are simply investors expecting some return on their investment.

    Again, as always, it comes down to having a good plan in writing, solid books, etc., so that investors can make informed decisions about your offering - investment/speculation.

    Good luck and hope this info helps.
    Cheers,
    Shawn

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    225
    Consider limited partnerships, too. Ask your attorney to explain. They're not LLCs, they are limited partnerships. Very basically, the partners are limited both in their responsibility and liability for the company. They legally have no say in how the company is managed, but they are also not liable for any legal problems or financing problems (in other words, they aren't financially responsible if the company is sued or if the bank forecloses on any financing). We set our company up this way and it seems to work wonderfully. Most of our limited partners own (or have owned) their own small businesses which means they are a great source for advice and support, but they also don't have the time or inclination to be involved in the management of a second company.

    As for finding a source for investors/partners, stick to the people you know. I researched the registration for a public offering and the legal fees for registration in the state of Pennsylvania alone were going to be around $15,000. That was just the attorney's fees - not the application/registration fees for the state OR the federal SEC. Friends and family are going to be your best resource. Going beyond that, you start getting into people who are going to be looking for more guarantees or more return on investment than you might be willing (or even able) to provide. Be selective with who you allow to invest, too. Don't just let any douche-bag with a lot of money join the project.

    Best wishes and keep plugging away at it.
    Mike Hiller
    Brewer, Raconteur

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    10
    Where do websites like Go4funding.com and gobignetwork.com fall legally in regards to soliciting investors? Are sites like those a no no as far as the SEC is considered too?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by bb23
    Where do websites like Go4funding.com and gobignetwork.com fall legally in regards to soliciting investors? Are sites like those a no no as far as the SEC is considered too?

    Websites such as easyshares.com will be available in the next few months if not already but unless your looking for 250k or more I would look into kick starter.com a local brewery just used that site to secure 25,000. We are looking to used that site ourselves in the near future.
    Joe Romeo
    Man's Best Friend Brewery
    Long Island, New York
    www.mansbestfriendbrewingco.com

    "Don't worry, it's domesticated."

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