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Thread: Canning Line Ideas

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    63

    Canning Line Ideas

    We are currently exploring the idea of a canning line. We could buy a filler and seamer system that matches the speed of our bottling line (200 bpm) for about $300,000+ but we thought we'd much rather test the market for our beer in cans. I have found Cask Brewing Systems offers a nice 30 cpm system for about $50,000. Does anyone have any experience with them or any other suggestions. Ideal speed would be about 80-100 cpm and cost about $100,000-$150,000. We don't like to buy used equipment. I'm willing to accept any thoughts or suggestions. Also if anyone knows how much cans cost for smaller orders (~20,000 cases at a time) please let me know. Thanks.

    P.S.... Since I've found this website it seems like I'm posting way more than anyone else. Am I abusing the system?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Hyattsville,MD
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    281
    Sherwood Forest Brewers in MA has a Cask canning sysytem to my knowledge. Contact them, you might be able to get some feedback on a smaller canning line.


    1-877-ARCHER6

    info@sherwoodbrewers.com
    Cheers,
    Mike Roy
    Brewer
    Franklin's Restaurant,Brewery & General Store
    Hyattsville,MD

    Franklinsbrewery.com
    @franklinsbrwry
    facebook.com/franklinsbrewery
    Franklinsbrewery.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
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    602

    Postings

    No experiance canning except to say I think it is a good idia.

    As far as posting too much I think there are to many silent members! We do need a good serchable archive though-- Webmaster??
    Operations Director, Tin Roof BC
    ted@tinroofbeer.com
    "Your results may vary"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada!
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    "We do need a good serchable archive though-- Webmaster??"

    I'm not the webmaster but,
    There is one already:

    http://probrewer.com/vbulletin/search.php?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Dexter, MI USA
    Posts
    203
    Keweenaw Brewing just installed a Cask canner, try giving them a call...906-482-5596.

    Aloha,
    Ron

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    121

    Question

    Have you thought about the new aluminum bottles? You could use your existing equipment. I believe its a Ball Metal product. Perhaps someone could enlighten me further on their use. I've only seen some company's mock up in a press release.

    Unless the seaming takes place at a high speed after the filler, I dont see how you could keep the airs in check even sealing on foam. So I would find it hard to believe that non-rotary equipment cans a quality product. Perhaps someone has some data to share there too?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Durango
    Posts
    83
    I have exp. with cask systems and am not impressed. First take 30% off of there est. case/hour to get an idea of what a few hard working employees can average over a 10 hour shift (including setup and cleanup). Also, the cask automatic sysytem is cheaper (I think) because it does not perform some necessary tasks that other more pricey lines do perform. I think that the cask line only blows a layer of co2 into the can and does not actually counter pressure fill (which is difficult to do with cans because of how fragile they are) and it also does not utilize hi speed photos or x-ray to inspect and ensure that the cans seams are perfect. This is key b/c if you are running a line that spit out a few hundred cases/hour you want to make sure that they are all sellable and will not leak at the lic. store. Maybe buy the manunal cask system (2 heads for 6 or 8k) and the min. order on cans to see how the sell. If sales are good (and they will be...last canning brewery I was with the can sales were beyond expectations) Then you can upgrade to the 300k system, get more cans and sell the manual 2 head canner to a small micro or large brewpub. Maybe try Krones or KHS for a can line. Micros in cans rock!
    Bottoms Up!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    1,566
    Straub,

    A two part answer to your post:

    1) As rudge75 mentioned above we do have a search engine on the site that searches both the Discussion Boards and Classified Ads. It works real well and is very handy for finding specific subjects.
    2) Heck no, you’re not posting too much. More the better. Please spread the word about our site. The more people who know about it, the more who will use and the more value it will have for everyone.

    Cheers!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    391

    cans

    The guys at Warbird Brewing in FortWayne In have the cask auto machine in operation. Looks good. Call and ask 'em for yourself, but I've seen it run, and I can't think of any reason it wouldn't run at the rated speed. Also, I don't see any problem with the no counter on fill...most big lines for cans don't run that way anyway. I used to be a can skeptic, but it seems to be an emerging craft market. Don't buy the hand machine if you want to fill for profit...

    just my 2 cents worth

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    199
    I looked at a small can line at Interbev a few years back. It was Italian equipment sold in the US by BC International. Contact info:

    SYMPAK, Inc.

    Division of BC International
    1385 Armour Blvd.
    Mundelein, Illinois 60060 U.S.A.
    Phone: (847) 247-0233
    Fax: (847) 247-0232
    info@bcinternational.com
    www.bcinternational.com

    www.sympak-usa.com

    At the time, they had a small line rated for 40-50 cpm with an in-line rinser, 9/1 filler/seamer, level indicator, coder and wrapper that I think he said was around $150 k. Sounded like a great micro line though I think it was originally designed as an R&D line for the majors.
    I don't know what they offer now but the website is alive.

    Hope it helps

    -Rob-

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    30
    Have you thought about using a co-packer for the initial runs of your product. It would help your cash flow up front. There are a few that do small order canning.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    63

    Thanks for the Input

    Thanks to everyone for their input, especially Rob Creighton. The BC International line looks like a better suit. It is also coming from a much for reputable company and has all the things we were looking for. For anyone who wants to see what he suggested follow this link...

    http://www.sympak-usa.com/bcinternat...df/compact.pdf

    Thats our new front runner. Now I know Ball makes cans for small orders (by the truck load) for around $.10/can. Anyone know anyone else who does this? Please let me know and keep the comments coming. Thanks everyone.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Durango
    Posts
    83
    mmmmm..... counter pressure filling on a can line. That is what you want. Also it has some sort of inspection (low fill level) And yes, most can modern can lines (from major producers) do fill this way (just not the cheaper models). This look like a good find- props to Rob C.! Now go sell some cans!!!
    Bottoms Up!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    121

    Cool

    Dont forget your seam checking QA equipment:

    http://www.qbyv.com/seamdefault.htm

    If anyone has links to other similar units please post them!

    The BC Int. machine looks like a great unit for the price. My only worry would be spare parts availability. Especially gaskets and seals, and the seamer chucks and rollers.

    Dont forget to let us know when you are up and running the can line. Let us know what the airs are like too.

    Ball puts out a high quality product!

    For a supplier search call these folks: http://www.aluminum.org

    or

    http://www.cancentral.com/

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    199
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by zbrew2k
    [B]Dont forget your seam checking QA equipment:

    http://www.qbyv.com/seamdefault.htm

    My only worry would be spare parts availability. Especially gaskets and seals, and the seamer chucks and rollers.

    I agree that supply of parts for Italian equipment is problematic but I blame the North American suppliers and not the manufacturers. I have no idea what kind of service or reliability comes from BC Int. but maybe someone here has dealt with them and will respond.

    I think if you're buying new anyway I would buy extra filling valves, gaskets, seals, chucks and rollers just so you can sleep at night. I also recommend to anyone with Italian equipment that you source a good local machinest who can fabricate any part required. It beats waiting for delivery for 16 weeks out of Italy. I learned the hard way with Krones! Good Luck.

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