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Thread: Long Draw Draft Question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3

    Long Draw Draft Question

    (first let me say sorry if this is answered somewhere already, I couldn't find it.)

    I have the need to store kegs 100 ft from where the tap is and can't get a gylcol system. The kegs will be stored at room temp. The keg line will also be room temp. and will be aproximately 100ft long. I can cool the beer once it is at the tap, via a coil or flash cooling system, but I have seen some conflicting information about how the beer in the line will react to the long draw and 70ish degree temps.

    Any insight is greatly apreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Durango
    Posts
    83
    good luck
    Bottoms Up!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    3
    well that helps me with the end result....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    1,567
    Maybe someone else will correct me; but Id say you have an impossible task here. First, you can only serve pasteurized beer. No unpasteurized draft beer should ever sit at room temp. You would be doing a significant disservice to good beer and to the industry to attempt otherwise. You need to build a cold box for the kegs and then use a glycol system. Anything short of that will only dispense foamy beer; and constant headache.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    304

    Wow................

    Really, that is a bad spot to be in. Unflitered beer held at that temperature for long periods will go off and taint the lines and your pocket book.

    Barring that..................and the fact you probably are stuck...............

    1.) Enjoy beer smoothies.

    2.) Nitrogenate (25-75) all your beers and push the crap out of them at a 34+ psi range through the cold plate or coil. Nitrogen, being nearly immiscible is aqueous solutions, should supersaturate over time and perform OK at this temperature.

    I remember the tavern we purchased that became our Alehouse here used to carry Guiness but they stored it under the bar. They drove it with a 5 lb Aligas bottle (25% CO2 - 75% Nitro) through a cold plate as you want, but their runs were shorter by far. 100 ft is pretty far even for cold beer in glycol lines.

    The nice thing about high driving pressures with Aligas is that it won't make too bad of a mess of your beer when you go through a creamer faucet. You'll want to purchase the next size up in regulators that'll allow you to get up to 40 psi since you'll also be fighting the temperature vs. saturation of the Nitrogen. Warm beer just doesn't take gasses well at all, to be overly simplistic, and you might not get a good saturation unless you crank it up.

    Why so far?

    No other method near the bar?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Redmond (Seattle), Wa
    Posts
    360
    Find another way! Also look into beer pumps, but you really need to cool that beer, I would not want to have to pour beer there! (or drink it for that matter).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    63

    Impossible Task

    Do not even think about it! Thats my advice.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Berlin, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    351
    One word: Bottles!

    Cheers, Tim

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Polson, Montana, USA
    Posts
    1,056
    I must agree with the other posters. You can do what you are proposing, but in the end, the "flash cooling" will just be allowing you to serve cold beer that doesn't taste very good (not to mention the possible growth of harmful nasties!). If you are going to do this, you MUST invest in some sort of line cooling system otherwise it won't make any difference because your customers won't return for your craft beer. Look into the remote glycol systems offered by Foxx Equipment in Denver, CO. This system has a self-contained glycol reservoir (about four or five diluted gallons), circulating pumps, and built-in compressor to maintain temps. Well worth it!
    Luck to ya'!

    Dave

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
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    1,038
    If you have access to a cooler at the dispense end of th eline, you could try a python system. In case you have never come across this, the systems consist of externally insulated multiple beer lines with a supply and return of chilled water, pumped from the dispense end in this case. I am not particularly clued up about dispense so am not sure if you can get systems to cope with this length of supply, and off course much will also depend on your desired serving temperatures. Best off checking with dispense equipment manufactures / suppliers. Try UK ones such as Hallamshire if you don't get any joy locally.

    I have a feeling such lengths of narrow bore pipe will be uncleanable though, and so even if you can chill it, will not maintain good hygiene. So you may be back to the bottles as a number of other people have recommended.

    Cheers
    dick

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3
    Well thanks for all of the input. Sounds like I'm back to the drawing board.


    Dave

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    USA/Taiwan
    Posts
    32
    I was waiting for somebody to speak of a python line, but I'm afraid that won't cut it. Even if you have the big flash chillers out there with a 90 lb ice bank you will never chill 100 feet of warm beer. However, if you put your chiller closer to the source and python the cold beer on the way to the tower you may show some measure of success, but I have doubts. Overall, I still agree that you should abandon the theory and either go to bottles or pony up and get the long draw system.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    601

    why?

    how about a beer box at the bar? You can buy them with tap towers and all from 2 to 4 keg units. Check out Rapids wholesale for examples. they are online.
    I am courious why you "cant" use glycol chilling and have to store the kegs warm?? If it is a matter of money, the cost of lost product and business due to serving crappy warm, foamy beer will be much more than the cost of installing the proper draft system. What you proposed simply in not possible.
    Operations Director, Tin Roof BC
    ted@tinroofbeer.com
    "Your results may vary"

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