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Thread: What's your SOP for brite cleaning between transfers?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,875
    What Kugeman said. Except without hot water. No reason to heat your cold room. A stand alone jacketed bright beer tank that can be left to cool at ambient for a day might be different if I had free hot water. Acid #5 and #6 are both formulated for cold cleaning. Seems that #5 is more aggressive against beerstone, and #6 is more of an acid detergent. Also had great luck with Ecolab Trimeta, Birko Ultra Niter, and Diversey Acidbrite 9. All of them are fairly new formulations for acid detergent cleaning in a CO2 environment at cold (or ambient) temperatures. NONE of them react with CO2. Rinse, CIP with as little 2% acid as possible without vortexing, rinse, sanitize, maybe rinse again. I can do this without losing much pressure--start at 13.5-14 psi and end up with 10. Also, CIPing a tank under pressure takes NO MORE PUMP PRESSURE than an open tank. The pressure added to your pump discharge due to tank pressure is made up for by the increased suction pressure on the pump suction due to the same tank pressure. I used to follow a hot rinse/hot caustic/hot rinse/acid/rinse/sanitizer/rinse procedure. There have been a lot of brewery cleaning developments since then. No one procedure is good for all breweries. Talk to your chemical representatives and try different procedures.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Cazenovia, NY
    Posts
    169
    Thanks for the help. Setting up the valves and hoses and pump now. I will follow up with my progress.
    David

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    27
    I break down our 9BBL tanks between every transfer. Parts go into hot water with a bit of phosphoric acid. I rinse the tank before adding a few gallons of kettle water with phosphoric acid, climb in and scrub by hand until every surface is perfect. Rinse again and sanitize. Close it up and purge with CO2 before transferring the beer.

    Doing it manually allows me to inspect to make sure it is absolutely clean, and actually takes less time and resources.
    Jeff Drum - Brewer
    San Diego Brewing Co.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Cazenovia, NY
    Posts
    169
    All right. I started with the tank that had the dunkelweizen, knowing that would be the worst. I used 1 oz per gallon of acid cs35 - enerco's acid 5 - per gallon. After three two minute rinses and a ten minute rinse (cold) I emptied the tank, and added the acid and water to cip for thirty minutes. Repeat the rinse procedure, because the runoff was a bit cloudy, and then sanitized with peroxyacetic for thirty minutes. Emptied the water, and then went ahead and opened the manway, after releasing the pressure. The tank was visually clean and shiny. The only issue was a bit of stubborn yeast on the dish bottom of the tank - less than half a cup. Sprayed this out, sealde, resanitized for ten minutes,and did the double five psi purge. Set up took way longer the first time - I kept rearranging the tees and valves, but it worked. In four hours today I cleaned the other three tanks with the same procedure. The dunkel went to the server kind of early, and the other three later, with a more flocculant yeast in the fermentor. I am just finishing up with the transfer of the third beer to my clean tanks. I think I just saved half a fifty pound tank of CO2, if not more.
    Oh, the carb stone looked spotless on visual inspection, and is bubbling CO2 into the next batch as I write this.
    Promising method, I will keep at it, while being a bit vigilant checking the beers progress in the tanks. Thanks Phillip, Hutch, et al!
    David
    Last edited by panadero; 01-17-2013 at 03:40 PM.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,875
    Glad to hear that you have a new technique to use. Like with everything, there is a learning curve. You'll soon learn to optimize this and use less to clean more while still maintaining a sanitary brewery. Cheers and good luck!
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Cazenovia, NY
    Posts
    169
    Phillip, I think you are right. I should be able to use 1/2 oz per gallon, rather than an ounce per gallon. That is my standard hot use rate. I assumed I might need more going cold, and 1 oz per gallon is only .78%. That is by volume, though and i was not sure if the 2% you mentioned was weight...
    Any way, The set up took too long the first time, but I know what I need now, and I should be done with the tanks in an hour or two, rather than the normal four to five it was taking purging, cleaning, purging etc...
    Thanks again.
    David

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    1
    To those who have experience with cleaning their BBTs under pressure with acid - do you use de-aerated cold water for the rinsing and acid dilution liquid? I'm wondering about the possibility of the oxygen in the rinse water to remain in the BBT after dumping the water. Thanks for your input.

    Matt Y.
    Half Acre Beer Co.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Hyde Park, NY
    Posts
    421
    No, I use my regular city water. I suppose if I had access to de-aerated water then I would use it to be safe, but I don't, so...
    Hutch Kugeman
    Head Brewer
    Brooklyn Brewery at the Culinary Institute of America
    Hyde Park, NY

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cellarman View Post
    You can never clean to much!

    Then without rinsing the tank drain the acid and add your caustic at around 150*-160* 15-30min.
    +1 on the cleaning but I would never add caustic to acid without a thorough rinse. When you combine the acids and caustic you will have salts precipitate out and streak your tanks. Not to mention it is dropping the effectiveness of your caustic. Caustics and acids will always clean better hot (140^F). That said its a time, temp, duration consideration and you can increase one to balance another. I would raise my concentration or time, or both, for a cold wash. Acids are really most useful for minerals, and caustics for organics. That is usually the purpose for both the chemicals as well as the pH swing.
    We run a caustic cycle every few batches and an acid passivation and sanitization after. Usually our bright is at pressure and contains some beer all the time except during cleaning. We filter our beer so our organics load is likely a lot less than some, if we didn't we would CIP more often.
    Its best to purge the tank with water, then co2 and it is a lot of water, but better than a batch of bad beer. We just wash the floors with that clean purge water.
    I would likely only rinse and acid sanitize in between my regular cycles if I had a problem of some sort. It's likely effective, but I would be concerned about long term organics growth or biofilm.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Nevada City, CA
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by Octobell Ray View Post
    To those who have experience with cleaning their BBTs under pressure with acid - do you use de-aerated cold water for the rinsing and acid dilution liquid? I'm wondering about the possibility of the oxygen in the rinse water to remain in the BBT after dumping the water. Thanks for your input.

    Matt Y.
    Half Acre Beer Co.
    Bumping this thread in the hopes someone will opine on this question. I have been using this closed cleaning under pressure system for almost 3 years. I have not noticed any oxidation issues but 99% of my beers go fairly quickly thru the taps. I have recently begun limited packaging for the local market and am simply wondering how much O2 pickup can come from introducing 10 gallons into a BT for an acid wash followed by a city water rinse and then later another 10 with sani?
    Dave Cowie
    Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
    Nevada City, CA

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