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Thread: Weizen Yeast Strains

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Hastings, MI, USA
    Posts
    263

    Weizen Yeast Strains

    Greetings,
    I'm planning on making a kristall weizen soon, and although I know the ideal yeast for this would be White Labs WLP300, the brewery owners wish to see if I can save some cash by using one of the Fermentis dry yeasts. The Safale K-97 looks promising, but I can't find anywhere if this strain will produce the clove-banana profiles I'd desire. Anyone have experience with this yeast?
    Selling my bosses on the need for $500 worth of liquid yeast is tough indeed, especially given that the performance of the Safale-04 I used on my IPA was spectacular, given the huge savings.....

    Thanks,

    Rob

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    618

    Save $$ and get right yeast

    (assuming 10bbl batch) Why not split off 1/2bbl from another batch and propagate 1L of the right yeast? This should accomplish both goals.
    Operations Director, Tin Roof BC
    ted@tinroofbeer.com
    "Your results may vary"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    387

    Yeast

    If you are only doing one batch of Weizen you could try propping up from a White Labs Homebrew vial. I did a Belgian Ale at about 16P where i took one Homebrew vial pitched it into 2 litres of wort, the next day into 5 gallons, the next day into 1Bbl then into 10 Bbl of the Belgian and it took off like a shot and was done in three days. You do have to plan your brews around the prop schedule though.
    Big Willey
    "You are what you is." FZ

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Hastings, MI, USA
    Posts
    263
    Thanks for the tips!

    Rob

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Dexter, MI USA
    Posts
    203
    Hello Rob,

    I have used K-97 on a number of occasions, please give me a call over here at Jolly Pumpkin, and we can discuss if it would be right for your beer. On a related note are you heading to the MBAA meeting Thursday? I'd love to try that IPA if possible.

    My other thought is that lots of kind folks throughout the state of Michigan will be using a hefe strain of one type or another in the upcoming days / weeks / all summer, really. Have you tried calling some of the local folks. Say, Grand Rapids BC? Come to think of it, make some calls, maybe someone can bring some to the meeting for you to pick up?

    Aloha,
    Ron

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    WA, Australia
    Posts
    38

    Weizen beer yeast

    I've been using the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan liquid yeast in my 7bbl batches for the last 4 months and I'm really happy with it so far. I grew up the culture from a single smack pack to a 10 litre batch using light malt extract and have done 6 succesful brews and just started using a new culture for my latest batch.
    Only problem I had was when I pitched a smaller than normal batch of yeast (2 litres rather than 10 litres) into a double batch and the lag time was noticeably longer. I think I pushed my luck there and think it was time to move on to a new culture. The esters are beautifully bananary (is that a word?) and everyone refers to it as "banana beer".

    Allan
    Tanglehead Brewing Company

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    12

    weizen underpitching

    Quote Originally Posted by big_al
    I've been using the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan liquid yeast in my 7bbl batches for the last 4 months and I'm really happy with it so far. I grew up the culture from a single smack pack to a 10 litre batch using light malt extract and have done 6 succesful brews and just started using a new culture for my latest batch.
    Only problem I had was when I pitched a smaller than normal batch of yeast (2 litres rather than 10 litres) into a double batch and the lag time was noticeably longer. I think I pushed my luck there and think it was time to move on to a new culture. The esters are beautifully bananary (is that a word?) and everyone refers to it as "banana beer".

    Allan
    Tanglehead Brewing Company
    There was a talk given a few years ago at the Craft Brewers Conference from a yeast company, either White Labs or Wyeast. They had studied the production of esters in weizen strains, particularly iso-amyl acetate. They concluded exactly as you have, that underpitching leads to increased levels of banana character that you noted. Some like it, some don't. I don't mind it, but prefer my brews to be somewhere in the middle.

    hoprocketeer

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by big_al
    I've been using the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan liquid yeast in my 7bbl batches for the last 4 months and I'm really happy with it so far. I grew up the culture from a single smack pack to a 10 litre batch using light malt extract and have done 6 succesful brews and just started using a new culture for my latest batch.
    Only problem I had was when I pitched a smaller than normal batch of yeast (2 litres rather than 10 litres) into a double batch and the lag time was noticeably longer. I think I pushed my luck there and think it was time to move on to a new culture. The esters are beautifully bananary (is that a word?) and everyone refers to it as "banana beer".

    Allan
    Tanglehead Brewing Company
    Al why dont you build a yeast prop out of a 50litre keg you may find one sitting out the back of the Premier (don't tell Aden I said that). Give us a call and I can run through the basics, you are a smart cookie and should figure it out just weld in the fittings that you use for gas and rig it so it can dose inline during transfer.
    Last edited by Beer Guy; 11-13-2006 at 01:03 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Redmond (Seattle), Wa
    Posts
    364
    grow it up!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    WA, Australia
    Posts
    38
    spoken like a true Monk Richo!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    WA, Australia
    Posts
    38
    Rich,

    I had a nice old 18 gallon keg lined up for just that job, (either that or a CIP tank), but someone nabbed it!

    Allan

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    27

    Mad Monk

    That would have been easier. I had a couple of modified kegs at the Scaly Wanker where the top was cut out and a 300mm screw on cap welded in to . The base was cut off and a 60* cone welded on the bottom. Pretty much set up like a 50ltr fermenter without cooling (will do that next time).

    They were really awesome for specialty stuff, yeast prop and experiments, set it up to dose in line ex heat exchange and had brilliant results.

    It can be expensive & a bit of mucking around but the best bit of having a brewery is beer and most welders and engineers love beer (as do Geo's).

    Liquid yeast is a pain in the backside but the advantage is diversity. You can also get pure cultures from Wehienstephan and send them to a micro lab to be split and cryo stored the culture is about 120 Euro's and the micro lab is a few hund clams.

    Cheers and Mad Monk beers
    Last edited by Beer Guy; 11-01-2006 at 02:16 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    27

    Copyright

    I assume there is copyright but you are not onselling the yeast and really would be no more of an infringement than cropping and using again. Ultimately though most/all brewery proprietry strains have come from somewhere and generally that is another brewery or a brewery yeast bank.

    As for bottle yeasts alot of the yeasts used in bottle conditioning or hefe beers are not the primary yeast strain, plus after a lenghty boat trip from Europe in less than ideal conditions the yeast may not be in the best of shape.

    For peace of mind it really is worth the $$ and effort as yeast is not the place to skimp or take chances with in your beer production(nor is malt hops or water for the record)

    Cheers and upside down beers
    Mad Monk

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
    Posts
    815
    Underpitching and underoxygenating will indeed accentuate ester production but have a thought to 4 vinyl guaiacol, the spicy/clove like phenolic important to many wheat beer styles. Production in wort/beer is linked to certain conditions.

    1/ Grain bill - >30% wheat is recommended. It is the source of precursor to 4VG - ferulic acid.

    2/ Fermentation temp - higher favours more.

    3/Fermentator shape - dished or square favored over cylindro-conical

    4/ Use of sterile wort for priming - favors 4VG

    5/ Use of protein rest at 111-112oF, pH 5.7 - frees ferulic acid from pentosans it is bound to.

    By overpitching and heavily oxygenating, you will lessen ester production and accentuate this important character. If you underpitch and underoxygenate, you'll risk overpowering this important compound with esters which may be short lived in bottle anyway.

    Pax.

    Liam

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by RobZamites
    Greetings,
    I'm planning on making a kristall weizen soon, and although I know the ideal yeast for this would be White Labs WLP300, the brewery owners wish to see if I can save some cash by using one of the Fermentis dry yeasts. The Safale K-97 looks promising, but I can't find anywhere if this strain will produce the clove-banana profiles I'd desire. Anyone have experience with this yeast?
    Selling my bosses on the need for $500 worth of liquid yeast is tough indeed, especially given that the performance of the Safale-04 I used on my IPA was spectacular, given the huge savings.....

    Thanks,

    Rob
    "To attempt to brew a classic Weissbier using English ale yeast would be like trying to make a single malt scotch in Japan." Eric Warner, "German Wheat Beer".
    ...I'm looking at Suntory single malt "Yamazaki" and don't know what to say.

    Leonid

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