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  • Weizen Yeast Strains

    Greetings,
    I'm planning on making a kristall weizen soon, and although I know the ideal yeast for this would be White Labs WLP300, the brewery owners wish to see if I can save some cash by using one of the Fermentis dry yeasts. The Safale K-97 looks promising, but I can't find anywhere if this strain will produce the clove-banana profiles I'd desire. Anyone have experience with this yeast?
    Selling my bosses on the need for $500 worth of liquid yeast is tough indeed, especially given that the performance of the Safale-04 I used on my IPA was spectacular, given the huge savings.....

    Thanks,

    Rob
    "By man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world" -- St. Arnold of Metz

  • #2
    Save $$ and get right yeast

    (assuming 10bbl batch) Why not split off 1/2bbl from another batch and propagate 1L of the right yeast? This should accomplish both goals.
    Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
    tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
    "Your results may vary"

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeast

      If you are only doing one batch of Weizen you could try propping up from a White Labs Homebrew vial. I did a Belgian Ale at about 16P where i took one Homebrew vial pitched it into 2 litres of wort, the next day into 5 gallons, the next day into 1Bbl then into 10 Bbl of the Belgian and it took off like a shot and was done in three days. You do have to plan your brews around the prop schedule though.
      Big Willey
      "You are what you is." FZ

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      • #4
        Thanks for the tips!

        Rob
        "By man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world" -- St. Arnold of Metz

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello Rob,

          I have used K-97 on a number of occasions, please give me a call over here at Jolly Pumpkin, and we can discuss if it would be right for your beer. On a related note are you heading to the MBAA meeting Thursday? I'd love to try that IPA if possible.

          My other thought is that lots of kind folks throughout the state of Michigan will be using a hefe strain of one type or another in the upcoming days / weeks / all summer, really. Have you tried calling some of the local folks. Say, Grand Rapids BC? Come to think of it, make some calls, maybe someone can bring some to the meeting for you to pick up?

          Aloha,
          Ron

          Comment


          • #6
            Weizen beer yeast

            I've been using the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan liquid yeast in my 7bbl batches for the last 4 months and I'm really happy with it so far. I grew up the culture from a single smack pack to a 10 litre batch using light malt extract and have done 6 succesful brews and just started using a new culture for my latest batch.
            Only problem I had was when I pitched a smaller than normal batch of yeast (2 litres rather than 10 litres) into a double batch and the lag time was noticeably longer. I think I pushed my luck there and think it was time to move on to a new culture. The esters are beautifully bananary (is that a word?) and everyone refers to it as "banana beer".

            Allan
            Tanglehead Brewing Company

            Comment


            • #7
              weizen underpitching

              Originally posted by big_al
              I've been using the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan liquid yeast in my 7bbl batches for the last 4 months and I'm really happy with it so far. I grew up the culture from a single smack pack to a 10 litre batch using light malt extract and have done 6 succesful brews and just started using a new culture for my latest batch.
              Only problem I had was when I pitched a smaller than normal batch of yeast (2 litres rather than 10 litres) into a double batch and the lag time was noticeably longer. I think I pushed my luck there and think it was time to move on to a new culture. The esters are beautifully bananary (is that a word?) and everyone refers to it as "banana beer".

              Allan
              Tanglehead Brewing Company
              There was a talk given a few years ago at the Craft Brewers Conference from a yeast company, either White Labs or Wyeast. They had studied the production of esters in weizen strains, particularly iso-amyl acetate. They concluded exactly as you have, that underpitching leads to increased levels of banana character that you noted. Some like it, some don't. I don't mind it, but prefer my brews to be somewhere in the middle.

              hoprocketeer

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by big_al
                I've been using the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan liquid yeast in my 7bbl batches for the last 4 months and I'm really happy with it so far. I grew up the culture from a single smack pack to a 10 litre batch using light malt extract and have done 6 succesful brews and just started using a new culture for my latest batch.
                Only problem I had was when I pitched a smaller than normal batch of yeast (2 litres rather than 10 litres) into a double batch and the lag time was noticeably longer. I think I pushed my luck there and think it was time to move on to a new culture. The esters are beautifully bananary (is that a word?) and everyone refers to it as "banana beer".

                Allan
                Tanglehead Brewing Company
                Al why dont you build a yeast prop out of a 50litre keg you may find one sitting out the back of the Premier (don't tell Aden I said that). Give us a call and I can run through the basics, you are a smart cookie and should figure it out just weld in the fittings that you use for gas and rig it so it can dose inline during transfer.
                Last edited by Beer Guy; 11-13-2006, 02:03 AM.

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                • #9
                  grow it up!

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                  • #10
                    spoken like a true Monk Richo!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Rich,

                      I had a nice old 18 gallon keg lined up for just that job, (either that or a CIP tank), but someone nabbed it!

                      Allan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mad Monk

                        That would have been easier. I had a couple of modified kegs at the Scaly Wanker where the top was cut out and a 300mm screw on cap welded in to . The base was cut off and a 60* cone welded on the bottom. Pretty much set up like a 50ltr fermenter without cooling (will do that next time).

                        They were really awesome for specialty stuff, yeast prop and experiments, set it up to dose in line ex heat exchange and had brilliant results.

                        It can be expensive & a bit of mucking around but the best bit of having a brewery is beer and most welders and engineers love beer (as do Geo's).

                        Liquid yeast is a pain in the backside but the advantage is diversity. You can also get pure cultures from Wehienstephan and send them to a micro lab to be split and cryo stored the culture is about 120 Euro's and the micro lab is a few hund clams.

                        Cheers and Mad Monk beers
                        Last edited by Beer Guy; 11-01-2006, 03:16 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Copyright

                          I assume there is copyright but you are not onselling the yeast and really would be no more of an infringement than cropping and using again. Ultimately though most/all brewery proprietry strains have come from somewhere and generally that is another brewery or a brewery yeast bank.

                          As for bottle yeasts alot of the yeasts used in bottle conditioning or hefe beers are not the primary yeast strain, plus after a lenghty boat trip from Europe in less than ideal conditions the yeast may not be in the best of shape.

                          For peace of mind it really is worth the $$ and effort as yeast is not the place to skimp or take chances with in your beer production(nor is malt hops or water for the record)

                          Cheers and upside down beers
                          Mad Monk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Underpitching and underoxygenating will indeed accentuate ester production but have a thought to 4 vinyl guaiacol, the spicy/clove like phenolic important to many wheat beer styles. Production in wort/beer is linked to certain conditions.

                            1/ Grain bill - >30% wheat is recommended. It is the source of precursor to 4VG - ferulic acid.

                            2/ Fermentation temp - higher favours more.

                            3/Fermentator shape - dished or square favored over cylindro-conical

                            4/ Use of sterile wort for priming - favors 4VG

                            5/ Use of protein rest at 111-112oF, pH 5.7 - frees ferulic acid from pentosans it is bound to.

                            By overpitching and heavily oxygenating, you will lessen ester production and accentuate this important character. If you underpitch and underoxygenate, you'll risk overpowering this important compound with esters which may be short lived in bottle anyway.

                            Pax.

                            Liam
                            Liam McKenna
                            www.yellowbellybrewery.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RobZamites
                              Greetings,
                              I'm planning on making a kristall weizen soon, and although I know the ideal yeast for this would be White Labs WLP300, the brewery owners wish to see if I can save some cash by using one of the Fermentis dry yeasts. The Safale K-97 looks promising, but I can't find anywhere if this strain will produce the clove-banana profiles I'd desire. Anyone have experience with this yeast?
                              Selling my bosses on the need for $500 worth of liquid yeast is tough indeed, especially given that the performance of the Safale-04 I used on my IPA was spectacular, given the huge savings.....

                              Thanks,

                              Rob
                              "To attempt to brew a classic Weissbier using English ale yeast would be like trying to make a single malt scotch in Japan." Eric Warner, "German Wheat Beer".
                              ...I'm looking at Suntory single malt "Yamazaki" and don't know what to say.

                              Leonid

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