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  • Fining lagers

    We currently use Kiesosol (Biofine Clear, Nelco 1072) to fine our Fvs using a recirc method after the tempurature reaches 33-34f with a dosage of 100ml per bbl, we then let it settle for 40-48 hrs. We have great success with our ales, producing brite beer that we only end up filtering the first couple barrels and the last couple at the end of the tank.

    Lagers are a different story (as seems to be the recurring theme I've read in several threads regarding biofine,ect). We've tried increasing the dosage to 150ml per bbl with only negligible improvement. Currently I have a batch that we aborted the filtration on and fined again yesterday May 3rd, this time with gelitan at a dosage of 1oz per bbl using the same recirc method (VFD pump, out of swickle port[valved 1.5"] and into the racking arm canted off 5 dgrees from verticle).

    So, long story short, just checking if anyone has discovered a "silver bullet" method, technique, or fining agent that clears up lagers to the point of at least making filtration a non nightmare.

    Thanks

    JackK

  • #2
    Once you've cooled fully at the end of fermentation, most of the yeast should already have dropped, so can be taken off from the bottom of the tank.

    This needs to be done carefully so all the solid material is removed, so ideally the FV should have a good slope to the bottom port otherwise it's very easy to start pulling through beer.

    We would then transfer via chiller (set at 0deg C) then leave for 3-5 days before filtration.

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    • #3
      Bump....
      Anymore thoughts on this fellow BiofineC/Nalco/kiesosol users out there?

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      • #4
        The variable that will have to most impact on fining success is your choice of yeast strain. The california lager strain for instance fines like a hot damn. I don't like it as the main culture yeast but I've had good results adding a small pitch of 2112 just before the diacetyl rest. There may be other lager strains that fine really nicely but 2112 is the only one that I have had any experience with. Dual strains are great for promoting flocculation in ales as well.

        Conrad

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        • #5
          one more bump

          ...in case someone that missed my original posting has a silver bullet up their sleeve to solve this issue ;-)

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          • #6
            As Conrad said, the ability to fine is largely yeast strain dependant. You may simply be using a strain that doesn't fine very well, as is the case with many lager yeasts, and some ale yeasts. However, lack of zinc, and particularly calcium in the fermented wort / beer may also make this problem worse. You may wish to try adding a little more calcium to the mash and sparge to get 25 to 50 ppm (more is OK, but not essential but may start to adversely affect the flavour you want) Ca ions in the final beer.

            You could try adding auxiliary finings the beer after the bulk of the yeast has settled after cooling, letting this mix / react, and then add the isinglass.
            dick

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            • #7
              Thanks all, will give some of these suggestions a try.

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              • #8
                Win...

                ...for us anyways. 25 days (brew to filtration)processing time, 11.5p lager (WP 833) (I know, I know, how is it a lager if you don't lager - lets just say "beer fermented with lager yeast")

                The process: After D-rest and negative D-test, crash to 34f. When at 34-36F Recirc in fermenter dosing kiesosol (75 ml per bbl) in-line over 10 minutes . Wait 48 hrs. Recirc in fermenter dosing Chitosan (75 ml per bbl) in line over 10 min . Wait 72 hrs. Filter.


                This is what it looked like coming out of the racking arm (sorry for the giant pic):

                Click image for larger version

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                Almost didn't want to filter it, but we like our "lagers" brite. 40 bbls through 37 pads (3-5 mics) in about 3 hrs.

                Not sure if its the silver bullet, but 2 brews with similar results so far.

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                • #9
                  I am looking for a supplier for biofine clear in Europe, anyone have one? None of the ones I've talked to carry Kerry products.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                  • #10
                    300 ml per bbl

                    We use biofine on our pilsner at a rate of 300ml/bbl as the only clarification. I gets extremely bright!

                    BSI L-78 (Urquell strain) 3 weeks of lagering at 45F then rack to brite tank with biofine, packaged 3 days later. We can get clear beer after 2 days, but yield is much higher if we wait an additional day.

                    Using less biofine takes longer and can leave some chill haze. We've found Gelatin to completely ineffective with this strain.

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                    • #11
                      One of the things I noticed with kieselsol and similar, it works better with yeast that floc better. We had a similar issue with our pilsner, yeast was supposed to be a medium floc yeast, and it was low-med at best. It took a lot of kieselsol to get it to clear up, I tracked it down to a zinc deficiency. Changed my yeast nutrient to something that had more Zn in it, and like magic, it drops out with 100mL/bbl not 250-300. The nutrient is inexpensive, yeastex-82 from BSG, and it has made all the difference.

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                      • #12
                        @ Gordvan:

                        Check out http://www.erbsloeh.com/en/products/.../clarification in Germany

                        Brausol P is good stuff. http://www.erbsloeh.com/product_data...olP_GB_002.pdf

                        or

                        Spindasol in Italy http://www.aeb-group.com/or4/or?oid=81275

                        It is more or less the same stuff as Biofine I assume. The German breweries are (almost) all using this stuff - also with the Reinheitsgebot. They say it goes out of the beer and therefore it is according the Reinheitsgebot (purity law). ;-)

                        @ Sauce: They also have a short brewing cycle of 21 days by the way. Also "real lager" in Europe is hardly lagered anymore.

                        Dani

                        Last edited by danibier; 02-05-2016, 04:16 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by danibier View Post
                          The Brausol P is a 30% Silica Gel as is the Biofine Clear. However in the US, there is only availability for the BrauSol Special. This is a 40%, but is otherwise identical.
                          Loeffler Chemical Corporation
                          (404) 629-0999
                          800-769-5020 (US & Canada only)
                          www.loefflerchemical.com

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                          • #14
                            I have a tough time getting my Pilsner to drop brite. WLP 833, 12 Plato, 30 IBUs. I dosed it with 133mL/BBL of biofine clear today. (per optimization test). I plan to hit is with Chitosan on Monday. We do not filter. Is there any concern with Chitosan, and shellfish allergies? I would think the PPM/PPB would be epically low in the finished beer, since it is supposed to drop out.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by squiggy View Post
                              I have a tough time getting my Pilsner to drop brite. WLP 833, 12 Plato, 30 IBUs. I dosed it with 133mL/BBL of biofine clear today. (per optimization test). I plan to hit is with Chitosan on Monday. We do not filter. Is there any concern with Chitosan, and shellfish allergies? I would think the PPM/PPB would be epically low in the finished beer, since it is supposed to drop out.
                              How did the Chitosan work for you?
                              I currently use Wyeast 2124 and fine with Biofine; my ales drop brite easy enough but the lager strain is a finicky little devil that takes 4+ weeks to drop brite in the serving tanks. Would love to hear if the biofine/chitostan combo worked for you or anyone else on here?
                              FYI: We have no filter

                              Cheers!

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