Flailing - ProbPlems with Perlick Taps (probably pilot error)

[Coolhand]

Hey guys -

We're open for the first time today and flailing with foamy beer. Details are below. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.

Perlick Keg Couplers w/Empty Keg Sensor (one little lever for ON and Reset/Clean, and one pressure relief valve, from look of it)
50' cooled tap lines
Cold Room temp 37
Tap Line temp ~ 35 (have played with this)
(2x) kegs from Lander Brewing
(1x) contract keg from Lone Peak

Instructions on the keg coupler says to tap the keg in the ON position, turn it to Reset/Clean for 15 seconds (I've tried 15 sec to 15 min), and then back to ON. If it doesn't flow, you're supposed to go back to Reset for a few seconds and back to On.

Nothing's working for us, the beer is extremely foamy in the Reset position and I can see a lot of movement/air in the lines, but at least it flows. In the ON position it eventually just shuts down to nothing.

Any ideas? If I can't recover tonight, I need to have them working by tomorrow I'm suspecting something with the "empty keg sensor".

Thanks folks, newbie mistake I'm sure.
Justin

[ColdFusion]

I've never used one of these but from the look of it, it seems the valve can be removed. The first thing I'd try would be to take the valve off the coupler and make sure the float is moving freely. I'm assuming there is a float mechanism inside that is a bit gummed up. If it's new, it could be defective I suppose. Worst case you run without the valve and lose a bunch of beer to foam each time you empty a keg until you get it fixed.

If there's still something wrong without the valve, you've got other problems.

[einhorn]

I assume you are talking about FOBs. Make sure there is NO air/CO2 in the FOB. Check temperature of beer being dispensed and consequently temperature of your glycol. Many times, the beer is not being chilled until the end of the tower - make sure cold air is flowing throughout tower. Of course the proper pressure is also required, check the distance/PSI chart. If you are getting big bubbles in your foam, you generally have low pressure, if they are tight bubbles, it's too high. Also check for kinks in the lines as far as you can see.

You should probably call a technician tomorrow to avoid pouring more foam.

[Matt Dog]

Ive used those type of couplers and the three way valve part is garbage. Unfortunately I dont think you can remove them from the coupler if its the same design I worked with. The Micromatic simple on off add on valves are the only ones I would use on a coupler. They are stainless, bullet proof and removable. FOBs are fine but Ive never heard a good word about the type built into the coupler. You want stand alone units mounted to the wall. I bet a regular coupler would solve your issues. If you see air in the lines its that coupler. Also what type of restriction are you running on the lines? Did a Pro install and balance it or did you?

[Coolhand]

Thanks guys. Just getting rolling again, fingers aren't working cause it's so cold in the tap room/barn and snowing outside

The couplers are Perlick Couplers with what I believe are their "Universal Empty Keg Sensors". Not FOBs in the traditional sense I believe... but the only thing I know about FOBs are what I just googled.

The system was installed by a Pro, Ron Knutsen out of the Seattle area. We didn't have any kegs available to test it on before he left, unfortunately.

I believe temps are OK based on the glycol temps but I'll confirm.

The way I understand the system (which is still minimal at best), pump pressure used to drive the Flojet beer pumps is completely independent of carbonation pressure.

I had one additional keg coupler that I'd just purchased from Micromatic for keg cleaning use. I put it on a keg and the pour is much better... not great, but way better. I believe this confirms that I have problems with the other keg couplers.

I'm guessing my options for a technician out here in the boonies is minimal at best, but maybe I can get a tech from the Pepsi distributor in Worland or something.

Time to call Perlick.

Thanks guys.

[Coolhand]

Alright guys, just an update for (embarrassing) posterity. This thing is at least 50% (or more) pilot error and possibly 50% questionable product.

1. Bottom line, I didn't have CO2 pressure on the kegs. The gauge was reading 15 psi, but the pesky little valve (mounted way over there) *below* that gauge was OFF. I'm an idiot, what can I say.

2. Secondarily, I still don't think the darned "empty keg sensor" couplers were working. Even after correcting the supply side pressure and letting things quiet down, they still weren't happy. I talked with two different guys at Perlick and they did admit that A) they've discontinued supplying this model with their keg kits and B) they're redesigning the foam sensor. The knowledgeable gent (Al) that helped me did point out that my pumps may be a little high (6 ft above ground vs 5 ft) and with 50 ft tap lines, I would have been fine with a mixed gas system rather than pumps.

I pinged the local Homebrew community and they saved my butt (again) with simple keg couplers until I can get rid of these "empty keg sensor" models. I've also been playing with pump pressures, and I still don't know how much restriction is in the lines at my faucet tower, but I'm getting there.

Slowly.



Thanks guys.
Justin

[TGTimm]

You did not mention the ID of you 50' beer trunk. If it's the standard 3/8" id, with beer pumps, you'll still need some restriction at the tap end. Our system is 95' long, pumped, and we still needed about 6' of 3/16" line to get the proper back pressure. This tap set-up produces some of the best pours I've seen.

If you haven't already, go to the American Brewer's Assn. website and download the Draft Beer Quality Manual. This is the bible of draft beer serving.