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stubborn krausen ring

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  • #16
    Am I correct in my thinking that Fermcap needs to be filtered out downstream?

    If so, it's not an option as I'm producing an unfiltered (and often VERY hazy) product.

    Scott

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    • #17
      High pressure spray washer

      We always wind up with a very hard krausen ring that sticks to the ferm like glue. It does eventually come off with caustic but we recycle our caustic so we need to preclean first. Hot water gets most of it but even with hot (90deg) water & scrubbing there's still residue left. Was thinking of using a high pressure spray washer with hot water but wasn't sure if that would somehow damage the ss in the tank (welds, pitting, etc.) Also, curious if fermcap in the fermenter prevents such an aggressive krausen ring. We use it in the kettle to prevent boilover but never really tried it in the fermenter.

      Thx.

      David

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sir Brewsalot
        Am I correct in my thinking that Fermcap needs to be filtered out downstream?
        YES! I have stopped using Silicone defoamers alltogheter in all of my beer. I do use a Wesmar product called DFoam when running Caustic Cleaners like Excel or PowerPac and it saves a lot of water and chems.

        Long thread on Fermcap Here
        But here is a snippit from it that i lifted from the BA Forum

        Originally posted by Jephro
        ...The FDA allows active silicone to be used up to 10 parts-per-million (ppm) but stipulates that the silicone must be removed prior to packaging by either filtration or centrifugation. In the case of unfiltered beers, use a food grade, non-silicone antifoam...
        [/url]
        Last edited by Jephro; 05-24-2010, 06:01 PM.
        Jeff Byrne

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        • #19
          PBW/Cellrmastr loses strength after an hour or so due to the breakdown of one of its components. It still works well as a soak though. Call Dana at Birko to get the detailed answer, but I remember talking to him about using it in a keg washer resevoir and he did not reccomend it unless you were recharging it every hour.
          Big Willey
          "You are what you is." FZ

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          • #20
            Wow! Never knew that about PBW and I've been using it for years. Never had a reason to let it sit in a brink, but I wouldn't have thought it would break down. I've used traditional chlorinated caustic cleaners in a brink for a week at a time, cleaning a 50 bbl fermenter a day with it before it gave up in a foamy mess. Might also be aware that Birko recommends using acid FIRST, no rinse, then BruReze/CellrMastr. Still playing with this routine. Seems counter-intuitive, but Dana has some research to back it up. Supposed to eliminate problems with oxalate buildup that I've had with PBW. Jury's still out.
            Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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            • #21
              Wow

              Wow guys, way to revive a thread that's been dead for five years!

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              • #22
                Anything on the high-pressure spray washer?

                (see above)
                Looking for an effective pre-cleaning rinse so that our caustic can be reused.

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                • #23
                  David, Fermcap will leave a thin, grease-like residue on the fermenter sides, and a small, tight krausen ring at the liquid line. Quite a bit easier to clean, IMO. Hard to believe such a tiny amount of remaining Fermcap would require filtration. I use 35ppm in the fermenter and there must be 90% of this already stuck to the fermenter.
                  At any rate, a pressure washer won't damage your vessels. It could play hell with your safety & sample valves, so strip your fermenter first if you're going this way. Is the expense of a pressure washer, fuel, detergent & water worth the little bit of extra NaOH expense?
                  Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DancingCamel
                    (see above)
                    Looking for an effective pre-cleaning rinse so that our caustic can be reused.

                    Use of a proper high pressure cleaning head, such as the Toftejorgs, operating at say 4.5 bar above the vessel atmosphere pressure (i.e. 4.5 if at atmospheric, 5.5 bar if the tank, typically a BBT is at 1 bar pressure) is probably the most effective way for the big boys.

                    However for small set ups, use of sacrifical caustic - and don't forget to consider recirculating a quantity by-passing the main detergent tank is probably the cheapest. I have also seen hot water used - but I think the heating energy costs are probably greater than a little bit of caustic.

                    And most acids are generally pretty useless - and expensive if dumped regularly compared to caustic

                    Cheers
                    dick

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                    • #25
                      Caustic

                      I never really treated our caustic as single-use before. We would reservoir it and try to keep it clean as long as possible. Maybe the spray washer is overkill. Thanks guys.

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