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Best Material for CO2 line

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  • Best Material for CO2 line

    hello forumites

    we are in the process of building a new facility and we are planning on eventually putting in a CO2 receiver about 100 ft away from the building. We have already created a 12" trench in the ground and we are now wondering what the best material would be for running CO2. Stainless, Copper, pvc, high-pressure beverage tubing ??? Also, any input for material and design for running CO2 inside the buildings would be incredibly helpful. Also, what pipe diameter from tank to building and then from the building to different points inside the brewery.

    Thanks for any input

    brad farbstein
    real ale brewing co

  • #2
    Stupid, but important questions

    Brad,

    What size and how many tanks are you feeding CO2 to?
    Also, where do you see your Brewery (tanks and size) eventually growing to at this facility?
    Will you be able to access the trench in the future?

    Being under ground, and the costs of digging things up, I would see about getting 1/2" or 3/4" SS tubing for the underground portion (depending on your answers to the questions above), as you will definitely sleep at night with it be there. Believe it or not, I have spent major coin on "piece of mind" technology and have not been off too many times. Do it right the first time, even if it costs a few extra hundred $$ up front. Build for future capacity, not for todays, when it comes to permanent installations.

    Regards,

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    • #3
      Copper is the best material for CO2 lines. Use hard tubing and sweated fittings and put valves everywhere. 1/2" is sufficient for most applications. How big is your receiver? Make sure you have a regulator that will handle your flow rate requirements. Otherwise, you will ice up your regulator.
      Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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      • #4
        I would run copper from the receiver to the building, but at the building I would run stainless with swaged fittings. If you have the cash use Parker-Hannifin fittings and valves. I've used John Guest snap-in fittings with braided tygon for the fittings from the lines to your tanks.

        At the copper/stainless junction I would install a block and bleed valve arrangement so that I could flush hot water from the farthest stainless point back to this bleed valve and to a drain. If you can flush it back to the source thats ok too. CO2 lines can be the biggest source of bacterial contamination in a brewery, although it may take years for it to show up.

        Without knowing the size of your bright beer tanks, and your expected daily usage, it would be hard to put a size out there. The comment about sizing your vaporizer is spot on, you dont want to freeze the lines up as you are using CO2 in the brewery.

        If you also have the money put in a totalizing infrared flow meter somewhere in the line so you can keep track of your CO2 usage from tank to tank, and help you plan your CO2 needs better. It will help with consistency.

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        • #5
          Further to my last post, I forgot that any large receiver worth anything has an electric vaporizer on it that keeps the pressure up when the flow rate is high so that the CO2 doesn't turn to dry ice with a drop in pressure. That would negate the requirement for a heated regulator, I believe. Good luck! Cheers!
          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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          • #6
            Copper is no good for CO2

            So I'm currently looking to source some stainless tubing because apparently copper and CO2 react, according to my gas company. They literally wouldn't even leave me a CO2 tank until I replaced the copper with something else. I don't know how accurate this information is, but I'm going to assume the people that sell CO2 for a living are on to something here.

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            • #7
              Materials

              Originally posted by chimney View Post
              So I'm currently looking to source some stainless tubing because apparently copper and CO2 react, according to my gas company. They literally wouldn't even leave me a CO2 tank until I replaced the copper with something else. I don't know how accurate this information is, but I'm going to assume the people that sell CO2 for a living are on to something here.
              Whoever is telling you its not ok to run C02 in Copper is MISTAKEN. Copper, Steel, or SS are right out of Engineering guidlines references for C02 from multiple sources. C02 only becomes corrosive when its aqueous in general terms. C02 is used for brazing Copper in refrigeration work to prevent oxidation within the tube being worked. Its used interchangably with nitrogen in this setting.
              I would not direct bury C02 lines in the ground, no way. If you are going in ground you need a chase. Any time you put utilities in the ground you are potentially asking for trouble depending on how its done, and what the media is. Overhead runs are preferred for this product. When things go wrong you will have a long trap structure which had better be taken into account.
              If you go in ground, you'd better have a way to isolate, clean, and purge that section of line as a unit.
              There are myrid of unexpected things that can happen with this kind of system.

              Star
              Warren Turner
              Industrial Engineering Technician
              HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
              Moab Brewery
              The Thought Police are Attempting to Suppress Free Speech and Sugar coat everything. This is both Cowardice and Treason given to their own kind.

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              • #8
                "We use Unisource CO2 transfer Hose." from NuCo2. Not sure if you can bury it.
                Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
                tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
                "Your results may vary"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ted Briggs View Post
                  "We use Unisource CO2 transfer Hose." from NuCo2. Not sure if you can bury it.
                  As Star says, use a chase regardless if you are going to bury it. Schedule 40 PVC oversized so you can push/pull replacements whenever needed. Then you don’t have tube contacting concrete/dirt.

                  I also double the comments on CO2/Cu compatability. If your gas is dry there is no issues. If you add moisture, your copper will react with the carbonic acid.

                  If you want the gold standard then go Swagelok stainless. You will pay the gold standard rate.

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                  • #10
                    Just got our quote from nuco2 and they’re gonna give us some stainless tubing to run supply lines from the street to the microbulk tank way in the back. One half inch for supply and a 1 inch for blowoff i think is what he said. So i guess it will be liquid on its way in? Maybe thats why they use stainless.

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