Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

pilot system

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • pilot system

    I'm looking for a good pilot system for trials and recipe design before opening a microbrewery. Does anyone have any idea about these systems, such as Sabco's, HDP's Etc.

  • #2
    Stainless steel specialists out of Montreal, Canada. Ask for Yvon. Way Way better than anything Sabco makes and for a fair price. www.stainlesssteelspec.com

    They can make anything in pilot size.
    Bottoms Up!

    Comment


    • #3
      Yargan,

      You might want to search the forum for 'pilot' as there was some debate regarding the usefulness of a pilot system...e.g. you won't make money, takes 8 hours to brew 10 gallons or 10 barrels, recipes won't scale, it will gather dust, you are pissing about, etc.

      My thought is that brewing as often as possible can't hurt you as a brewer.
      I personally wouldn't buy a 10 barrel or more system without having a pretty good idea of the beers I'm bringing to market and playing with the recipes on a 10 gallon scale is a lot cheaper than 10 barrel.

      If you don't have the time to built something from the ground up and have some coin, there are some turnkey systems out there. Not sure what size you are looking for, but one of the 'homebrew' choices too look at would be B3 (Beer, Beer and More Beer - www.morebeer.com). They do systems up to 40 gallon in their standard 'sculpture' design and I think even sell a 3bbl system.

      I am firing my 20 gallon system (B3 2050 - http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=15256) from them for the first time on Friday and am happy to let you know how it goes. So far, completely satisfied with the system and customer experience. I am not tied to B3 other than being a customer...

      Cheers,
      Jeff Rosenmeier (Rosie)
      Chairman of the Beer
      Lovibonds Brewery Ltd
      Henley-on-Thames, Englandshire
      W: www.lovibonds.com
      F: LovibondsBrewery
      T: @Lovibonds

      Comment


      • #4
        pilot usefulness

        We have a pilot system...just a small 5 hec system (about 3 bbl).

        While a small system DOES take just as long as the big one, we find it incredibly useful. I can brew 2 batches at once, and my brew day isn't any longer (well, not really) (our other system is a 20 bbl) and I can do small batch cask ales and seasonals on the small system.

        Works for us. I'd recommend getting maybe a 1-5 HL system for sure. If you want to build one, that's easy, too. Spend money on a good ss tig, and when you're finished building your own system, your mad style welding skills will stand you in good stead for the rest of your brewing career!!

        DanF

        Comment


        • #5
          I looked the the sculptures from More Beer, and decided to build one myself (though I had them do the kettle welding.) I've done 20 brews in on this system and I love it. For what its worth...

          http://www.evan.com/brewery

          Comment


          • #6
            Recipes not scaling

            Rosie

            I was wondering about recipes not scaling from a pilot system to a larger brewery. If you or anyone else can give me some more in depth info on why it would be appreciated.

            Jamie

            Comment


            • #7
              ...they don't

              lots of reasons why...if you don't understand any of them you aren't ready for a brewery or a pilot system. Read up my friend. Understanding is the key to better beer.

              The short list

              Color changes
              Bitterness changes
              evap changes
              Heat transfer (in general and situational)
              Trub formation and settling

              Learn your big system and stick with it. Small batches are for homebrewers.
              Larry Horwitz

              Comment


              • #8
                Larry,

                Got to disagree a little. Yeah, there will be changes, but once you figure out how to compensate your recipes for the increase in IBUs and the changes in color, etc, you can get a good feel for a recipe on a small system before you brew on the bigger one. I developed most of our recipes on a home-made 10 gallon RIMS system and only had to adjust my efficiencies to scale it up to a reasonable approximation on our 10 bbl system. It's a great way to evaluate new hops, grains, and yeast strains that you want to try. It just sucks to do the same amount of work for 10 gallons as 10 bbls.
                Linus Hall
                Yazoo Brewing
                Nashville, TN
                www.yazoobrew.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  small brews/pilot brews/homebrew

                  Originally posted by Larry Horwitz
                  lots of reasons why...if you don't understand any of them you aren't ready for a brewery or a pilot system. Read up my friend. Understanding is the key to better beer.

                  The short list

                  Color changes
                  Bitterness changes
                  evap changes
                  Heat transfer (in general and situational)
                  Trub formation and settling

                  Learn your big system and stick with it. Small batches are for homebrewers.

                  I agree with Larry, it is really hard to duplicate from a small "homebrew system" to the size you are planning to brew. Larry correctly point out a short list of changes that can and will happened. Through this changes, you will have NOTICEABLE changes in flavor.
                  I recommend to join the MBAA and get the TQ and have access to the
                  online papers you can learn from.
                  Happy Brewing
                  Fred

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks

                    Hello,

                    Thanks for the advise guys, I am definitely going to keep reading. I am also hoping to get on with the local brewpub for some experience.

                    Cheers
                    Jamie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      FEOI
                      More beer no longer makes the 40 gallon or 3bbl systems. I just talked to their sales rep.
                      Also I talked w/ Yvon at stainless and he was VERY nice and helpful. As most will know a brand new custom stainless brewhouse like stainless will produce, even at the 1bbl to 2bbl range will be expensive. So many variables involved with how expensive of course.

                      matt g

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In some regards, isn't 10 gallon batches a scale up option to keep? Even as a hop breeder, I need small batch ability. I can change the hops, malt, yeast, methods, water, etc... for 3 batches per day with one person. I see differences often and for not much $- and I need to know the differences. As a hop breeder, if I have only 5-10# of a new variety with wonderful qualities/aromas, who's to use it and see how it brews if not for small batch capabilities? I look for a local brewer that can use all 5-10# of a unique new hop in one batch- and that's small! I have alot of varieties. I can't get a new variety to a brewer that needs 100# of hops per batch- yet. And so larger brewers will never know that new varieties of hops can provide new answers- only the small scale brewer with roots in 10 gallon batches. Those folks help me learn what variety of hops to focus on the next year. And who would ever try a 10bbl batch of New Mexico Chico Ale without trying the 10 gallon batch first?
                        And I do wish I had a larger system to brew with- it's just the cost of it and.......I'm busy growing......hops.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If anyone is interested in building a gas-fired pilot system fairly inexpensively without having to weld, may I suggest consideration for commercial kitchen stockpot ranges and the new Blichmann Boilermaker brewing kettles. You will have to design your own connectivity but that's not very hard to do with all the available products in the homebrew industry. If you are looking for a RIMS/HERMS system, it will get a lot more involved, but there are plenty of resources for that as well....just google "Brutus 10" for an example. I'd imagine having a system like this at a brewery would be a great cure for boredom among brewers, and an inspiration for seasonals or adding beers to your repetoire.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bored? Who's bored?
                            Larry Horwitz

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Brutus 10

                              That Brutus 10 is darn similar to mine (link above.) Though now that I brew in 10hl size, I don't find much time to use the pilot. That said, it was great for perfecting the recipes that I later scaled up and launched as house brews...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X