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Equipment for measuring carbonation in already bottled beer

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  • Equipment for measuring carbonation in already bottled beer

    QC Lab equipment question:
    Since we do refermentation in the bottle, I find it useful to know the amount of carbonation (grams of CO2 per liter) in the finished product.
    My main questions are:
    What is the name of the instrument that can test the amount of CO2 in an already capped bottle?
    Where can I get one (or who makes them)?
    And about how much do they cost?

    I'm sure they are expensive for a good one, but I think in the long run it would be cheaper than using an expensive lab.
    Br. Francis
    Birra Nursia
    Norcia, Italy

  • #2
    Zahm & Nagel

    Hi Brother Francis,

    Products from Zahm and Nagel seem well respected. We are opening later this year, and even though money is tight, one of these is on the "necessary list".

    Here is the link to their product page.




    Also, here is a link of a Probrewer discussion with several sources and alternatives.



    Hope this helps


    Shawn

    Shawn Monnie
    French Creek Brewing
    Meadville, PA


    Busy doing renovations.
    Opening 2015

    Comment


    • #3
      You may also consider something like this
      Click image for larger version

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      Available from http://www.barby-kuehner.de/en/produ...asurement.html

      Comment


      • #4
        You need both temperature of the fluid in the bottle and the pressure of the gasses present to determine carb levels, so I don't see the deviice above working very well at all.

        The Zahm & Nagel Series 6000 D.T. Piercing Device is pretty standard equipment. Not cheap, probably a long wait to get one new from Z&N, but worth it. Easy to use, and a great forearm workout!
        Timm Turrentine

        Brewerywright,
        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
        Enterprise. Oregon.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
          You need both temperature of the fluid in the bottle and the pressure of the gasses present to determine carb levels, so I don't see the deviice above working very well at all.

          The Zahm & Nagel Series 6000 D.T. Piercing Device is pretty standard equipment. Not cheap, probably a long wait to get one new from Z&N, but worth it. Easy to use, and a great forearm workout!
          Correct. The temperature of the beer will be the temperature of the room it's in.

          Comment


          • #6
            OK. I'm used to pulling bottles directly from the line and checking carb levels at bottling temps (~0C). I also wonder how, if at all, the loss of the head pressure when uncapping the bottle would affect the carb reading compared to the piercing device, which measures the head pressure as well as the CO2 released by agitation. Be interesting to compare....

            It also just occurred to me that that thing could become a pretty fast projectile with the pressures at room temp (~ 32 psi @ 70F for our beer) if not tightened enough!
            Last edited by TGTimm; 03-04-2015, 11:54 AM.
            Timm Turrentine

            Brewerywright,
            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
            Enterprise. Oregon.

            Comment


            • #7
              +1 on the Zahm 6000 DT. Not cheap, but probably the best option for 99% of brewers

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dberg View Post
                You may also consider something like this
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]22459[/ATTACH]

                Available from http://www.barby-kuehner.de/en/produ...asurement.html
                We do use those so we can tell when our refermentation is done. Unfortunately we can only have one per bottling. And I haven't been able to correlate the pressure reading with the amount of CO2 from our lab results (eg once the bottle read 4.38 bar and on another batch it read 3.52 but with both the lab results were 6.8 gCO2/L, even though the bottle sizes and shapes were the same, and I'm pretty sure the temperatures were the same.

                I think something to measure the volume of CO2 would help, especially to do multiple bottles across a bottling.
                Br. Francis
                Birra Nursia
                Norcia, Italy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dberg View Post
                  You may also consider something like this
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]22459[/ATTACH]

                  Available from http://www.barby-kuehner.de/en/produ...asurement.html
                  Or are you saying there is an easy way to get the gCO2/L (or volume of CO2) just using a manmometer?
                  Br. Francis
                  Birra Nursia
                  Norcia, Italy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by norciabrewmonk View Post
                    Or are you saying there is an easy way to get the gCO2/L (or volume of CO2) just using a manmometer?
                    No, you're basically doing the same thing that the Zahm 6000 will do. Knowing the pressure and the temperature, you can look up on the CO2 table to determine your CO2 volume.

                    The difference you encountered before with the lab results I can't explain if the temperatures were the same. CO2 solubility is also dependent on the gravity of the beer (if you look at the chart, they tell you what the chart is for-it's also why there is a chart for water and beer).

                    If you want to do multiple tests on a run and don't want to buy more gauges, then the Zahm is definitely the way to go. I was simply trying to give an alternative that is perhaps a less expensive way to go.

                    Also, keep in mind we're all recommending Zahm because it's what we are familiar with in the US. Perhaps some of our European members can recommend a similar device that may have less of a lead time to acquire.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As an alternative the the products mentioned above, you might like to consider a package piercing unit. This can then be used with a CO2 meter (eg. Orbisphere, Paar, etc.) but can also be used with a dissolved oxygen meter for measuring in-pack DO2 levels.

                      The latter is very useful to monitor your bottling process, to ensure low headspace O2.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Once you have the Z6000 piercing unit, you can add the Z7000 New Style Air Tester to get a grasp on your headspace gasses (note that these units will not be correct if you have nitrogenated beer). While the Z7000 only measures non-CO2 gasses, it's pretty accurate to assume ~23% of the headspace gasses after the CO2 is removed are O2.

                        We're very happy to get <0.5 cc of non-CO2 gasses in a 12 oz bottle, and being able to quickly test and confirm this results in great peace of mind.
                        Timm Turrentine

                        Brewerywright,
                        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                        Enterprise. Oregon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Calculating CO2 vs temperature in bottles using excel spreadsheet

                          Hi from Bali, We measure our CO2 in the bottle (pre-pasteurised) and need to combine temperature reading for a more accurate calculation, therefore does anyone have an excel spreadsheet they are willing to forward that reveals actual CO2 pressure once the initial CO2 and temperature readings have been typed into a linked cell in the spreadsheet?

                          Terima Kasi

                          Mr Robbie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mr. Robbie,

                            There are many carbonation charts available on line that can provide just what you are looking for. They are far easier to use than trying to get a carbonation calculation into a spreadsheet. The calculations are not all that smooth.

                            They are similar to this.Click image for larger version

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                            Cheers,
                            Matthew

                            Originally posted by Roco View Post
                            Hi from Bali, We measure our CO2 in the bottle (pre-pasteurised) and need to combine temperature reading for a more accurate calculation, therefore does anyone have an excel spreadsheet they are willing to forward that reveals actual CO2 pressure once the initial CO2 and temperature readings have been typed into a linked cell in the spreadsheet?

                            Terima Kasi

                            Mr Robbie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anton-Paar also have a carbonation measuring module as part of their Generation M measuring systems: https://www.anton-paar.com/uk-en/pro...le-carboqc-me/

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