Actual cleaning procedure - still a bit of a mystery

[MadHatter]

With all of the cleaning products that Five Star offers, and different advice from different brewers, it's hard for me to get a handle on what the SOP for CIP and sanitizing all vessels is.

Currently we have PBW, Acid #6, and Saniclean. I was under the impression that Saniclean was our no-rinse sanitizer, but from the reading that I've done we're still required to sanitize after using Saniclean. I just want to make sure that we're doing everything in the correct order, with the correct cleaners:

System size: 5 hL (3.5BBL)

For Kettle, Mash tun, and plastic conical fermenters:
1. Hot water rinse
2. 10 gallons hot water + 15 oz. PBW, CIP recirculate for 30 minutes
3. Hot water rinse
4. 10 gallons cold water + correct dosage of Saniclean
5. (Is there a step #5?) What should I be using to sanitize fermenters before filling?

For Brite Tank / Kegs
1. Hot water rinse
2. 10 gallons of Acid #6 mix, CIP recirculate for 30 minutes for BT, 5 minutes for kegs
3. (Is there a step #3?) Do I need to rinse off the Acid #6? Do I need to also sanitize?


People mention PAA on here a lot, what are they using it for? Which of my cleaners could be substituted for PAA, and what are it's benefits? Are people using a separate sanitizer aside from the cleaners I've mentioned?

Thank you in advance for your help, the entire brewing process is understandable but cleaning is still an enigma to me, 4-5 steps seems ridiculous.

[beerguy1]

I only use a small amount of 5 star products so I cannot answer your question last year they sent me a really nice binder full of all there products and what is required out of and for there proper use. I would suggest you call them and ask for one they are very nice folks over there I am sure they would send you one

[soia1138]

"Sani"clean is your sanitizer. It's essentially the same thing as star san but modified for low foaming. They just never forked out the dollars to have it labeled as a sanitizer, so it's called an "acid rinse". Yes you need to rinse the acid #6 and yes you need to still sanitize after that. PAA is a sanitizer, so in your case that is your saniclean. Saniclean does not require rinsing. Everything else is basically fine although you seem to be using a lot of volume of water and cleaner for small vessels.

[barleyfreak]

I use PBW and acid #5 on kettle, tun, HX and FVs. Every x number of batches through a BT I'll use also. Between batches I clean BTs cold with Acid#6. Kegs use Acid#6 too.

I sanitize with PAA except when I pack the HX -- with that gets starsan.

And yes, Five Star initially sent a binder with info and instructions for all their products. Very useful for me since I only starting pro about a year ago.

[mmussen]

I would advise you against using Saniclean as your only sanitizer in the brewery. It is not registered as a sanitizer by the FDA - and hence you can get in serious trouble and some pricy fines if you are only using saniclean. Use something that specifically says its a sanitizer.

As for cleaning here's what I do for my brewhouse and fermenters

1 rinse with hot water to get the tank to temp and get the chunks out
2 add 5 - 10 gallons of cleaner (depends on the size and shape of the tank) I alternate between using 1 oz/gal of PBW and 1 oz/gal of caustic
3 - let chemicals reciculate for 20+ min. Visually inspect to make sure tank is clean.
4 - rise with hot water
5 - hit with 1 oz/10 gal Acid 5 for 15 min.

When I clean with PBW I will leave the heat exchanger packed full overnight to make sure everything is clean

[soia1138]

I would advise you against using Saniclean as your only sanitizer in the brewery. It is not registered as a sanitizer by the FDA - and hence you can get in serious trouble and some pricy fines if you are only using saniclean. Use something that specifically says its a sanitizer.

Keep a small container of star san around, problem solved. "This is our sanitizer". FDA? We have never ever dealt with them, considering we are producing alcohol.

[Beluedog]

Sani on hotside?!!!

[GlacierBrewing]

I use PBW for 30 minutes, acid 5 for 25 minutes, and starsan for 10 minutes in all vessels and kegs, hot and cold side. This protocol allows me to sleep very well at night.

My two cents.....

Prost!
Dave

[TonyT]

Lots of info already out there on this, but here goes:

Your alkaline cleaner is mostly for breaking down organic compounds (caked on crud and crust). This is your PBW or Caustic.

Your Acid 5 is primarily for breaking down minerals (beer stone, it's probably there in tiny amounts even if you can't see it). If you fail to use acid on your tanks, beer stone can/will eventually become a problem. It also helps keep your stainless passivated and protected from corrosion.

Run those two cleaners together, with a rinse before and after each. Some folks go alkaline then acid, some go acid then alkaline. Try both and see what gets you clean.

Acid 6 for brights and kegs is great as long as you're putting really clean bright beer in them. If they are really cruddy you may want to use the same regimen as your other tanks. Rinse after acid 6.

Saniclean is a no rinse sanitizer. Use it as your final rinse before beer on fermenters, brights, kegs, and your heat exchanger, as well as anything else that will touch beer cold side. Lots of people use peroxyacetic acid as a sanitizer because it has a wider kill spectrum than acid anionic sanitizers, is no-foam and great for sip, and its cheap.

[magnemelhus]

Don't forget to check the pH!

I also like to wash with hot alkaline, then hot acid, and finish with PAA before fermentation and for extra dirty bright tanks... but be warned, make sure to purge out all the CO2 from the tank before you go in with hot alka, otherwise the acidic CO2 and caustic will react and implode your tank! At the very least, make sure the tank is well vented while CIPing and check the pH of the cleaning liquid after recirculating for a few minutes; if their was significant CO2 left in the tank it will have neutralized most of the caustic and you'll have to add more detergent. You can also end up neutralizing the acid wash if the alkaline hasn't been properly rinsed out, so check the pH of the rinse water until it's close to 7, and whatever you do, don't cool down a 140 degree tank with cold water, that is the best way to end up with a ball of crumpled metal! Make sure you slowly transition from hot to cold rinse, or better yet, let it cool overnight. The best way to purge CO2 from a freshly rinsed tank is just to open the top, bottom, and racking valves and let it drain out the bottom for 30-60 min. Just a few tips I learned the hard way...