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Thread: Dry Hopping Overflow

  1. #16
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    I wonder how the NEIPA brewers are dry hopping their active fermentation? Waiting until the yeast metabolism slows down (day 3-5), or something else to keep from having overflows?

    I dry hop active fermentation (day 2) with 2 lbs / BBL charge in a 5gallon carboy. I understand there must be a substantial difference when using a large vessel (such as 7BBL FV) due to yeast pitch, off-gas volume and other factors. Has anyone figured out a solid way to dry hop active fermentation on large scale, to ensure that we get that tasty yeast/hop oil bio-transformation that makes NEIPAs so wonderful?
    Ryan
    Viridian Brewing Company
    [Brewery-In-Planning]

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I wonder how the NEIPA brewers are dry hopping their active fermentation? Waiting until the yeast metabolism slows down (day 3-5), or something else to keep from having overflows?

    I dry hop active fermentation (day 2) with 2 lbs / BBL charge in a 5gallon carboy. I understand there must be a substantial difference when using a large vessel (such as 7BBL FV) due to yeast pitch, off-gas volume and other factors. Has anyone figured out a solid way to dry hop active fermentation on large scale, to ensure that we get that tasty yeast/hop oil bio-transformation that makes NEIPAs so wonderful?
    Probably with a hop cannon, to push the hop slurry in under pressure and without introducing O2.

    Regards,
    Mike Sharp

  3. #18
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    Is that the cause of overflow when dry-hopping large quantities - the introduction of Dissolved Oxygen? I understand using a cannon has many benefits for dry - but I always thought the main benefit was making it easier to performing dry, or being able to perform dry on a FV with no dry port.
    Ryan
    Viridian Brewing Company
    [Brewery-In-Planning]

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Is that the cause of overflow when dry-hopping large quantities - the introduction of Dissolved Oxygen? I understand using a cannon has many benefits for dry - but I always thought the main benefit was making it easier to performing dry, or being able to perform dry on a FV with no dry port.
    I have a DH port that I no longer use after switching to the hop cannon/slurry method. I find it is more effective in getting hop aroma -- quicker too. Certainly more labor intensive then dropping hops in the DH port, but the beer is ready far faster and the aroma infused faster as well.
    Dave Cowie
    Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
    Nevada City, CA

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I wonder how the NEIPA brewers are dry hopping their active fermentation? Waiting until the yeast metabolism slows down (day 3-5), or something else to keep from having overflows?

    I dry hop active fermentation (day 2) with 2 lbs / BBL charge in a 5gallon carboy. I understand there must be a substantial difference when using a large vessel (such as 7BBL FV) due to yeast pitch, off-gas volume and other factors. Has anyone figured out a solid way to dry hop active fermentation on large scale, to ensure that we get that tasty yeast/hop oil bio-transformation that makes NEIPAs so wonderful?
    As stated earlier, add a small amount of hops to blow off the extra CO2 in solution. Let the bubbling slow/stop, then add the rest. Haven't experienced the volcano yet. This is on 7bbl scale. 3+ lbs/bbl dryhop

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by istuntmanmike View Post
    As stated earlier, add a small amount of hops to blow off the extra CO2 in solution. Let the bubbling slow/stop, then add the rest. Haven't experienced the volcano yet. This is on 7bbl scale. 3+ lbs/bbl dryhop
    Thanks for that. This is interesting - I'm trying to figure out the reason why adding a small amount first would prevent substantial off-gas from the remaining amount of hops dumped in at once. What is the off-gassing caused from in the first place? C02 from active fermentation scrubbing the Dissolved Oxygen out of solution that the hops introduce?

    Also - if you don't mind - what brewery do you work for?

    Cheers!
    Ryan
    Viridian Brewing Company
    [Brewery-In-Planning]

  7. #22
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    Nucleation Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Thanks for that. This is interesting - I'm trying to figure out the reason why adding a small amount first would prevent substantial off-gas from the remaining amount of hops dumped in at once. What is the off-gassing caused from in the first place? C02 from active fermentation scrubbing the Dissolved Oxygen out of solution that the hops introduce?

    Also - if you don't mind - what brewery do you work for?

    Cheers!
    The fermenting beer has some dissolved CO2 resulting from fermentation. The hops provide nucleation sites for the CO2 to come out of solution. DO has nothing to do with it.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonBrews View Post
    The fermenting beer has some dissolved CO2 resulting from fermentation. The hops provide nucleation sites for the CO2 to come out of solution. DO has nothing to do with it.
    Thanks for the reply. Would this generally be with beer that was spunded during ferm, resulting in C02 in solution as opposed to only in headspace? This doesn't matter honestly, because with NEIPA we want to preserve all the volatile aromas, meaning that spunding is the way to go. Just curious on if the large concentration of C02 in solution is generally from spunded fermentations.

    Thanks.
    Ryan
    Viridian Brewing Company
    [Brewery-In-Planning]

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Would this generally be with beer that was spunded during ferm, resulting in C02 in solution as opposed to only in headspace? This doesn't matter honestly, because with NEIPA we want to preserve all the volatile aromas, meaning that spunding is the way to go. Just curious on if the large concentration of C02 in solution is generally from spunded fermentations.

    Thanks.
    No. Spunding captures the co2 from fermentation and allows additional pressure to build as a result, forcing more co2 into solution. But without spunding, you still have atmospheric pressure, which means that the fermenting beer will have a little less than 1 vol of co2 without you doing anything to it.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  10. #25
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    Makes sense. So the key is to introduce a small quantity of nucleation sites for the C02 egress, let the off-gas finish, and then add the remainder of the hops. Say - 10% first, then 90% after off-gas, for a DH quantity of 3.5lbs / BBL.
    Ryan
    Viridian Brewing Company
    [Brewery-In-Planning]

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Makes sense. So the key is to introduce a small quantity of nucleation sites for the C02 egress, let the off-gas finish, and then add the remainder of the hops. Say - 10% first, then 90% after off-gas, for a DH quantity of 3.5lbs / BBL.
    Yeah, that's the idea, but don't overthink it with actual percentages

  12. #27
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    I am hoping to follow the technique of adding a small amount of dry hops and letting it off-gas and then adding the rest during active fermentation. I haven't experienced the geyser but I have lost 25% of volume due to offgassing out through the blowoff. Hope this works.

    On a side note about dry hopping. In continuation of our experimental IPA series we have upped the dry hop game. I am hearing from some people on here about dry hops of up to 5lb/bbl. This is crazy! The last two batches we added almost 2lb/bbl dry hop. Flavor and aroma is great but yield sucks. I know the yield is not going to be great, but we are getting a 3-4" layer of undissolved hops on the top when kegging.

    Does anyone have any suggestion on the best way to get all of these hops to dissolve?I have a hop cannon on order.

    Thanks,
    Andy

  13. #28
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    If you're losing that much vol just through the blowoff I would think it's because you're overfilling your fermentor. Put less in there to start and/or use an antifoam. I've used HopAid with good results, got it through Willamette Valley Hops. It kept the krausen down and I hadn't noticed any negative side effects from its use.

    As far as mixing up the undissolved hops, I hook up co2 to the bottom dump port and blast it in there. 40-50psi in short bursts to get big bubbles that mix up what's at the bottom as well as the top.

    I have used Nalco/Biofine at low dosage to try to get the done hop particles to settle out a little better and get some better yield out of the tank

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by istuntmanmike View Post
    If you're losing that much vol just through the blowoff I would think it's because you're overfilling your fermentor. Put less in there to start and/or use an antifoam. I've used HopAid with good results, got it through Willamette Valley Hops. It kept the krausen down and I hadn't noticed any negative side effects from its use.

    As far as mixing up the undissolved hops, I hook up co2 to the bottom dump port and blast it in there. 40-50psi in short bursts to get big bubbles that mix up what's at the bottom as well as the top.

    I have used Nalco/Biofine at low dosage to try to get the done hop particles to settle out a little better and get some better yield out of the tank
    I don't have a ton of excess room in the tank but around 15%. I do use an antifoam agent.
    This only happens when I add dry hops during fermentation and get the off gassing from the hops. Normal beers I don't get any overflow.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  15. #30
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    Oh, I gotcha. Then I would maybe try adding less hops to begin the offgassing. Throw in a handful, let it offgas a little, repeat until it's blown off. That's kinda what I did on 7-8bbl batches, and didn't experience anything blowing off other than CO2. It didn't take much hops to blow it down to the point that I could toss in the rest because it would pile up on top and not even be adding to nucleation sites to cause offgassing anyways. Then I would close the blowoff valve and hit the bottom with the CO2 bursts, watch your headspace pressure depending on your headspace vol bc there will be extra pressure from the added CO2 as well as from mixing in the hops and whatever is still at the bottom of the tank. You might have to vent some pressure depending on how much more CO2 is going to offgass immediately and how much will be created by the rest of the fermentation. I would let it build up to ~15psi or more (depending on headspace volume), cold crash the beer and have it naturally carbonated by the time it was all said and done.

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