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Out-dated Cask MCS seaming specifications

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  • Out-dated Cask MCS seaming specifications

    Hi all,

    We have recently come into ownership of a second hand Cask MCS system of one of the previous generations; such that Cask no longer has support, manuals, or specifications for it, and are not particularly helpful beyond offering to sell us a new model. This older system was initially designed for a 12oz can, but we are changing that to a 473ml can with the same diameter.

    The issue I am running into is with regards to the seaming process; the rollers and chuck are different than Cask's current generation, and I can only find recent seam specifications; does any one have archived seam specs or know where I can get some? As we are, we can seam cans, and have them hold pressure with warm beer inside with no apparent loss, but the hook lengths are about half the length of those from a modern Cask line. Without a benchmark it is difficult to feel comfortable saying 'good enough' and sending cans to market.

    I've attached a picture of the seaming unit, I've occasionally seen these models crop up on the forums but they are few and far between.

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Setup

    Assuming you can make adjustments in 2 planes like the more modern assembly, you will have a lot easier time getting it dialed in if you can do optical analysis of the can seams, even if you don't know the original spec which may be archived at Ball.
    With that approach you will find that none of them run right to spec. but you can get consistency for your machine if all the bearings, rolls and chuck are in tolerance. It simplifies the process greatly.
    Warren Turner
    Industrial Engineering Technician
    HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
    Moab Brewery
    The Thought Police are Attempting to Suppress Free Speech and Sugar coat everything. This is both Cowardice and Treason given to their own kind.

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    • #3
      Yeah we can adjust in 2 planes, and are taking seam measurements for consistency, though they are not near what the modern machine does.

      The tolerances of the rollers, bearings and chuck are a concern; I have no idea of their age, wear or maintenance records, and they aren't stocked as spare parts by the manufacturer anymore. As it is, I'm running with the assumption that they are workable, and that any inconsistency comes from my adjustments. Otherwise, it's just a strange paper weight.

      Thanks

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      • #4
        We've been using the same seaming unit for a few years. It has been interesting but not too hard to get a consistent seam. We've found we can get the first operation seamer to run in modern spec and the second one is usually right on the upper limit as well. The first op, we've been told, is what handles 90% of the seam integrity.

        We use the current Crown LOE specs and essentially just measure the first and second op. thickness. The body hook length has never been fully in current spec but it's close and never has caused us problems.

        What changed the game for the better for us was replacing the chuck with a modern one. Cask doesn't make it anymore but in comparing it to modern chucks i found the only difference was the stem height of the chuck itself.

        I took both the old and the new chuck to the oldest machinist in town and asked them to cut the new one down as close as possible to the 1/100th of an inch to the old chuck and thankfully it worked like a charm and haven't had problems i was having with general seaming inconsistency mainly from lid skipping that i had with the old chuck. Lifting the platform up and down should be easy too, for the smaller height can you're using.

        Hope that helps!

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        • #5
          Bearings

          I have one of these MCS also. You should consider replacing all the bearings before you get started. My bearings were all shot, but the problems didn't really show up until we started seaming cans.
          Scott Swygert
          Founder - Honky Tonk Brewing Co.

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