Yeast bock

[mr.jay]

This Christmas season, I am hoping to brew a Weizen Bock. This is by several customer requests, and not a style I am too familiar with brewing, so I would like to get it right the first time. I have tasted a few. Some were spiced, some were dark, one had a pronounced licorice flavor. I am curious about spices. Any recomendations? What spices, and how much is too much per Bbl?

More importaintly, what yeast do I use, and how much? My guess is, (for 18 degrees plato SG) pitch 1 1/2X the amount of Weizen yeast, and aerate the heck out of it during KO. Am I in the right ballpark here?

Another issue is decoction. My system is set up for single infusion (believe me, I've tried step mashing ) I know you can't believe everything
you read, but I've read that it is imperitive to do a decoction mash for this style of beer in order to achieve the correct body and complexity. What I have done for my standard wheat beers, is to use malts that are lower in protiens, and fortify the mash with enzymes. What is the general consensus?

Thanks,
Jay

[RobZamites]

With today's highly modified malts, I feel you can get away with brewing damned near anything on a single-step mash system. Just use plenty of crystal malt for body and mash higher for a fuller finish. Spices? You could spice a weizenbock, I suppose, but I'd just use WLP300 or something akin to that for the phenolics you'd get in a standard hefeweizen. Just my $0.02.

[scott isham]

I would be leery of using too much crystal. Just use Munich, Wheat and a little Melonodian, mash at a slightly higher temp. and you should have a great Weizen Bock. Remember, it's just a big Dunkles Weizen, not a Bock. Rob was right, you don't need decoction anymore. Don't ruin it by spicing it. Your ideas for the yeast seem right on.

Cheers,
Scott

[Sauce]

Ditto on what Scot and Rob have already posted concerning process and style issues.

....But just to beat a dead horse some more, Gereman Weisens are all about the phenolic and fruity yeast character with the creamy mouthfeel from the high percentage a wheat being the other major ingredient characteristic.

JackK

[crassbrauer]

Aventinus from Schneider, the best example of the style (and the original one), is according to it's original gravity a Doppelbock, which by law has to be over 18%; I believe theirs is 18.5%. None of the beers originally brewed in Einbeck, corrupted by Bavarian-speakers to "Bock", ever brewed a beer like Aventinus, however, they never really brewed what we now term Bock and Doppelbock either - these are primarily Bavarian styles. Nowadays, beers over 16% are referred to as Bock and those over 18% as Doppelbock.

Of course, Aventinus isn't spiced. I would agree with you Rob regarding the yeast. Naturally, Aventinus is brewed using German Weissbier yeast. It's not the easiest beer to ferment and age. I would, however, do more than a single step infusion, regardless of the level of modification, even if I weren't using wheat malt and just brewing an all barley malt Doppelbock.

[mr.jay]

Thanks for all the input! I was chatting with a brewer today, who suggested using a small percentage of rye malt to achieve a spicy nose. Yea or Nea?

[jason.koehler]

Yea, not a bad idea...assuming rye is your bag...not everyone likes it

[Charles S.]

I just brewed a Roggenbock at 20 plato with 30% rye malt, 20% wheat malt, balance barley with 3068 yeast. Be careful with big mashes and lots of wheat or rye, rice hulls a must especially with rye or very long runoffs.

Kinda like a banana on rye bread sandwich!

[mr.jay]

What kind of flavor will it contribute? Will it literally taste like rye bread? My spec sheet for Breiss says (under flavor profile) it tastes like rye. I've heard it contributes a peppery, clovelike aroma. What percentage should I use? I was planning on using 55% wheat, so perhaps I should back off a bit, and make up the difference with some rye.