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Thread: To emulate BrewSculpture or...?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    84

    To emulate BrewSculpture or...?

    I had plans to order 55 gallons Brew Sculpture from MoreBeer to Israel as a Pilot/Start up brewery but got a quotation for shipping as high as $3000-4000 for about a $5000 piece!
    Now I consider to order about 2 hL (1.5-2bbl) brewery locally.
    Does it make sense to try to emulate the BrewSculpture built around their 3 standard 55 gallons SS pots as HLT, MT/LT and kettle or other solutions do exist? Is there any possibility to put hand on design drawings for such a small scale "brewhouse"?
    And in general, what is the best "source of wisdom" to learn about tech solutions and brewing engineering for very small-scale breweries? I have a couple of dozens of books on brewing but no one on practical brewing engineering.
    Thanks for any help.

    Leonid

    Haifa, Israel

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas
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    387

    Sculpture

    It is very easy and not that expensive to emulate a "sculpture". While they are certainly nice, all you are really trying to do is make beer so you dont need all the bells and whistles these sculptures offer. Have a local Welder/fabricator build you a three tier gravity fed stand and you wont need the pump, although those small pumps are relatively inexpensive. If you are planning to do simple single infusion mashes it will be easy. Even if you want to step mash simply have them attach burners to each vessel. A restaraunt supply house should have some nice big stainless pots that would work. Add some thermometers and some stainless valves and hoses and you should be good to go. The Beer Beer and More Beer sculptures are overkill imho, maybe Im just jealous but most brewpubs (including mine) dont have the kind of control those sculptures offer and we do fine. Just my two cents........
    Big Willey
    "You are what you is." FZ

  3. #3
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    Apr 2006
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    84

    ...brewing engineering book?

    Thank you.

    And do you know any brewing engineering book especially worth for small-scale brewing?

    Leonid

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    2
    Hello,

    I'm located in the Netherlands Antilles and have the same problem with high shipping costs and decided to make my own "sculpture" with the help of a local welder. Total cost of the structure about $500 including painting with 2 component paint.

    I own some 12 gallon pots but made the structure to be able to use it for 150l pots should I have the need to upgrade in the future. The only thing I would need to upgrade are the burners.



    cheers,

    Ernest

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Norway
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    Hi,

    Same for me in Norway. I needed a pilot brewing system for the 3 years before opening our brewpub-- so I built my own, though I had MoreBeer do the kettle welding, and I did the rest. http://www.evan.com/brewery

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    84

    Burners?

    Hi,

    Thank you for the input.

    To Evan:

    Quote Originally Posted by evan
    Hi,

    Same for me in Norway. I needed a pilot brewing system for the 3 years before opening our brewpub-- so I built my own, though I had MoreBeer do the kettle welding, and I did the rest. http://www.evan.com/brewery
    I have encountered Evan's brewery earlier and looked at it very thoroughly.
    Thanks to the quality pics your brewery details helped me more than the MB's!
    And the idea to use CFC for wort recirculating is quite distinctive, anyway haven't seen it anywhere else.
    Did you make the CFC by yourself or ordered it from MB?
    Have you ordered full or half couplers welded? Do you connect MPT spigots or use nippels? Of what kind? Did you order burners at MB or locally?
    Have you considered weldless connections?
    What is your "grown-up" brewpub brewery b. length?

    My plan is to build about 2hL brewery. You can't say the difference when you look at the picture: 20 or 200L looks the same.

    Thank you.

    Leonid
    Last edited by Hofer; 09-03-2006 at 01:37 AM. Reason: Addition

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Norway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hofer
    I have encountered Evan's brewery earlier and looked at it very thoroughly.
    Thanks to the quality pics your brewery details helped me more than the MB's!
    And the idea to use CFC for wort recirculating is quite distinctive, anyway haven't seen it anywhere else.
    Did you make the CFC by yourself or ordered it from MB?
    Have you ordered full or half couplers welded? Do you connect MPT spigots or use nippels? Of what kind? Did you order burners at MB or locally?
    Have you considered weldless connections?
    What is your "grown-up" brewpub brewery b. length?

    Leonid
    Glad I could be of some help.

    The CFC recirculation idea wasn't mine, but I'm glad I did it that way. It works quite well for MT temp control. Its basically an evolution of a HERMS type system.

    The kettles, CFC, burners, pumps, and quick release fittings are all from B3. All the copper plumbing, other fittings are regular plumbing store stuff. All the copper fittings are soldered combined with MPT connections for the ball valves. The stainless carts that the whole thing sits on were free, so that was a good deal!

    I'm not sure what you mean by full or half couplers? There are some weldless fittings in the system, but I'm not sure that would have worked for the heating element. But the ones I did use are ok. Overall, its a great little system to use as a homebrewery or pilot system. Its certainly durable enough to be used commercially, but to do that where I live, the plumbing would all need to be stainless. But for pilot testing, its just great!

    The system for our brewpub is 10HL.


    -evan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    84
    Quote Originally Posted by evan
    Glad I could be of some help.

    I'm not sure what you mean by full or half couplers?
    There are some weldless fittings in the system, but I'm not sure that would have worked for the heating element. But the ones I did use are ok. Overall, its a great little system to use as a homebrewery or pilot system. Its certainly durable enough to be used commercially, but to do that where I live, the plumbing would all need to be stainless. But for pilot testing, its just great!

    The system for our brewpub is 10HL.


    -evan
    From MB catalogue: "Full Couplers are meant to have threads on the inside of the kettle as well as the outside for special applications."
    Do you think it makes sense to heat electrically 200L HLT?
    ... 10hL is just great!
    I think I should start to look for apprenticeship somewhere in Europe! The situation here reminds somehow the one you described in your earlier posts: there are no brewpubs or microbreweries but the idea in the air!

    Thank you.

    Leonid

  9. #9
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Norway
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    Ok, now I understand. Mine are half-couplers with threads only on the outside and a flush weld on the inside.

    Regarding your HLT, I would strongly recommend that you make it 300 or even 400 liters. You will always need more water then just the brew length. You could heat it electrically or with gas, it depends on what is more available to you and what the costs are there. It also depends on if you are friends with an electrician or a gas guy, or which one you are able to handle yourself.'

    Good luck!

  10. #10
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    Apr 2006
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    84
    Thank you!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    84
    I started a new thread. The same topic but from a different angle.

    "I am in a process of 200L/2BBL "brewhouse" designing. The original idea was to emulate MoreBeer "Brewing Sculpture" and make it locally.
    All their 3 vessels are same regular 55G SS pots, the combi MT/LT, the kettle, and the HLT, all are heated by an open fire: gas 300000BTU burners.
    When preparing the "project" for manufacturing I start question myself about efficacy of this 3-same pots design beautiful simplicity.
    Fat brewing books when describing combi mash tuns in the industry give some general leads:
    - it supposed to be insulated and not heated by either way;
    - at the pictures it looks like the diameter is substantially greater than the height (at the rate about 4:1);
    - the depth of the mash is typically 0.9-1.5m (approx. 3-5 ft.) when the tun itself is 2.0-2.5m (approx. 6-8 ft.) in depth
    - grist and water are premixed on the fly by their way to MT (in "Steel's masher)
    - it is not mixed providing "floating" airy grain bed
    - MT/LT is supplied with "device for adjusting hydrostatic head"

    Now trying to scale this construction down to the Lilliputian 200L I am messed very much.
    What proportions MT/LT should be? How to mash in w/o this Steel thingy? To mix or not to mix? How to mix? I plan to run off by pumping not by gravity so, is there smth simple for the "device for adjusting hydrostatic head"? To use an intermediate gyle?
    Should I give up Batch Sparging if I don't want to?
    Does recirculating thru HX comply with combi MT? It was mentioned that there were constructions using this principle.

    And speaking about two remaining pots. What is preferable shape for the kettle? Should it be sized equal to MLT or oversized?
    I do consider electrically heated HLT and maybe even a kettle. I read it here that in general electricity for heating is disliked. The reasons are understandable, but it is only 200L. It is estimated about 30kWh, maybe less, and it costs about $3-4. It is clean and fairly easy controllable.
    What heat elements I should look for? How it is installed in SS vessel?
    I found 200L standard SS drums. Could they be used for HLT? And for the kettle?"

    Any advice on this would be most welcome.

    Thanks.

    Leonid

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