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  • Tart beer question

    Hello all,
    New to the forum. Quick question about lacto infection. Is it right to assume that if a beer were sour due to a lactobacillus infection, there would be a decrease in pH? Also, wouldn't a beer that is tart need to be below 4.0 pH to be perceived that way? My issue is that beers that seem to be ok pH wise, from mash to finish seem tart. Room temp samples could be like 5.7 mash, 5.4 cast out and 4.3 finish and still tart. According to fresh calibration solutions my meter is on. Is it my pallet? Others seem to taste it but not until I mention it but its definitely there. Any one else had this issue?

  • #2
    Are you using acidulated malt or lactic acid for adjustments?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Junkyard View Post
      Are you using acidulated malt or lactic acid for adjustments?
      Yes I have used both acid malt and lactic acid to adjust mash pH

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      • #4
        what is your percentage of acidulated malt or lactic acid? We use acidulated regularly, and cant put our finger on the flavor except that it adds to crispness, we do see only a .1 pH drop, which is our target. The second thing, if you think you have a lacto infection and its producing off flavors in just the duration of your mash, you would have to have one hell of an infection, an hour is not enough time at mash temperatures to cause that problem. You probably are using too much lactic acid or acidulated malt for the beer.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jebzter View Post
          what is your percentage of acidulated malt or lactic acid? We use acidulated regularly, and cant put our finger on the flavor except that it adds to crispness, we do see only a .1 pH drop, which is our target. The second thing, if you think you have a lacto infection and its producing off flavors in just the duration of your mash, you would have to have one hell of an infection, an hour is not enough time at mash temperatures to cause that problem. You probably are using too much lactic acid or acidulated malt for the beer.
          I don’t think it is the acid malt or lactic acid. I have the tart flavor on the last beer I did that did not use either acid malt or acid. I used RO water with minimal water adjustment to keep things simple. My mash pH was 5.35, cast out 5.3. I also mashed pretty high on this at 154-156F. I expected full mouthfeel but its on the thinner side. It is tart and astringent. I believe I am controlling all the things that cause astringency. Mash pH, sparge pH and temp. Milling is on the coarse side. My fermentation’s can be too warm sometimes but I don’t know that these issues can be causes by that. Can they? I never get too hot and end up with fusels or anything like that. But they are probably warmer than they should be. I usually aim for 68F but end up 70-72F after a day or two usually. I’m always afraid of stalling out and not finishing.

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          • #6
            Sounds to me like you need to get your processes under control and exactly where you want them to be. You won't stall most ale yeast until you get below 65, and most of the time you have to get below 60. Higher ferm temps cause different and more esters to form, an ester is a combination of an organic(carboxyilic) acid and an alcohol, so if any of the precursors are around, this could cause it. I have also found, anecdotally, that some metal ions have a tart sensation at low levels. You should send out beer for a micro analysis, you will know if you have a lacto infection then. Total acid titration is the best way to go, pH is good but you are measuring it in a buffer system, so pH drops can be delayed until the buffer capacity is eliminated.

            Steps you should take from here:
            1. Clean everything
            2. On the next batch, pull samples of wort into sterile containers from before the heat exchanger, after the heat exchanger, after the tank is filled and then after fermentaion. Send these all out for micro testing, or do it yourself in house, test for acid producing bacteria.
            3. Get a new pitch of yeast, if you do have a problem, dont propagate it.
            4. Get your process under control, no excuse for "shooting for x but im ok with something between y and z", it should be exactly what you want, no more, no less.
            5. Test the beer for metal ions, easiest way is to rub some beer on your skin then smell it. If it smells like blood/pennies, then you have metal ions in you beer. Re-passivate your tanks and be careful what materials come into contact with the wort.

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