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Thread: hidden costs and estimating building costs

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    105

    hidden costs and estimating building costs

    Good Morning Kids!

    I am in the process of writing my business plan to get investors to open brewpub here is Washington. I brew belgian styled beers.

    My questions are massive in numbers! But I wll keep it a bit short for this post.

    I need to come up with any hidden cost that come with the building of a brewpub. I am looking to open a 75ish seat house with a 7bbl brewhouse.

    The dream would be to build it from the ground up, because there isn't any place around like the one in my head. Which brings me to my second question.

    How can I go about estimating building costs. I know you cant nail it dow to an exact number but for my BP I could get a cost/sqft estimate to help work out the numbers.

    Thanks for the help guys,

    John

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Reno, Nevada USA
    Posts
    332
    You need to first decide on how your building is going to be constructed. Wood framed with stucco, some brick or flag stone or a metal type construction with front Stucco or rock Entry. Our building is just a simple metal building with a thin metal skin and limited insulation. We are however a production only facility. Used equipment will greatly lower your cost and if you do alot of the small construction yourself, painting, equipment installation, room layout construction, divider walls, kitchen installation , this will also lower cost. You first need to ask yourself how heavily involved you want to be in the construction and or tennant improvments. Then you can get a better feel for the whole cost per SQ/Ft. I did all the improvments myself to the brewery floors and in the construction of the office and bathroom, with the help of a jack hammer, concrete saw and the local builders supply house. And the best part is I passed all the inspections. This was almost as satisfying and breweing a good beer. Call me anytime if you want more detailed information.
    lance@760-246-4843
    lancejergensen@juno.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Dexter, MI USA
    Posts
    203
    Hello John,

    Ditto what Lance said. I kind of did the same thing, more or less. But perhaps a local contractor or builder of commercial spaces from the ground up could give you a better ballpark. You could give them a more detailed idea, maybe even a floor plan, and work from there. They will be very hesitant to offer anything that would be considered a bid, but some informal talks over a pint may be enlightening for you.

    Costs will definitely be easier for you to predict if you go the ground up route. Remodels always, always seem to take longer, and cost far more than you initially plan.

    Also take a look a thing called, mysteriously enough, "Black's Guide". I have a few old Xeroxed sheets listing some common build out costs (from 2000, yikes!)

    Cheers,
    Ron
    Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    105
    Thanks guys,

    I was planning on doing the same thing, I am cheap skilled labor! I can build and fix just about anything I just couldn't tell you how much it would cost!!!

    I will trudge on!

    John

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    292
    John,

    We are in the process of building a new brewery/taproom. Not quite the same as a brewpub, it has the retail/bar area, just no kitchen. Our plans have finally gone to the city! We are basically looking at new construction costs of being between $90 and $110 per square foot. Our architect insists the $110/sq ft is pretty normal for new finished commercial construction in this area. The production part of the buiding is much more industrial and much of the "finish" cost can be saved. However, you will want good floor and wall coatings, process oriented electrial/mechanical and plumbing in the brewery, and they are not cheap either. You can definitely build a concrete-floored metal production building for much less, but that doesn't sound like the direction you are going. I hope that cost range helps. Have fun and good luck! -Brian

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    105
    Thanks Brian!

    That is exactly what I am looking for!

    This board rocks everyone is so helpful even if we are ultimately in competition of each other. That is the absolute best thing about the brewing community.

    THANKS AGAIN!

    John

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    78

    $110

    A agree that $90-$110 is a good range. Major cost impacts can be fire sprinkling of building, parking and landscaping costs, finishes.
    Normally your architect should be able to help you with this. Another suggestion: foresee 10% of the total cost for contingencies and change orders.
    The better the planning and preparation of the plans before they go to bid (I prefer competitive bidding between contractors), and the more time you spend on the job site (an hour a day) the smaller the percentage for contingencies will be.

    BelgianBrewer
    www.sbmbrew.com
    Last edited by BelgianBrewer; 04-05-2008 at 12:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    105
    Thanks so much guys,

    I will be at the project site everyday. It is easier to fix things when they happpen as opposed to trying to move a drain after the flooring is down!

    If anyone has any insight to any fees and such for Washington state, like contruction fees, deposits, etc that would be great.

    And what kind of experience should I expect with arcitects and other professional people. Do they have retainer type fees like lawyers or am I just a bit skitish?

    Thanks for all the help,

    John

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    292
    Architects often charge you in two ways: you pay a fee based on time and expenses it takes to design the building, then a percentage fee based on the cost to construct the building (ie. 8% of the building cost). Just make sure you negotiate for the cost of their services up front so it is clear what you are paying.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    105
    Thank you Brian,

    I am getting a lot more confidence about this whole thing!

    KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!

    John

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