Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Floor drain in cider house

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Floor drain in cider house

    Hi all,

    We are getting ready to expand our cider facility and need advice about floor drains. We'll be pouring new concrete so it's a blank slate.

    The new space will be about 26x70, with about 26x50 of this space devoted to tanks. (The remaining space will be a kitchen area, at one end of the building.

    My impression is to go with some form of trench drain running lengthwise down the middle of the floor, with a 2% grade meeting the drain on each side.

    Here are a few questions:

    1. Is a trench drain the best way to go? Down the middle of the floor? What other options are there?
    2. Should the drain drain into plumbing beneath the slab? Or, should it drain into plumbing that begins outside the building? (The former option allows a space between multiple drains, the latter doesn't...).
    3. I assume the trench will need a grate of some sort, if only to allow pallet jacks and/or a forklift and/or a walk behind stackers to cross it.
    4. Will a pallet jack/forklift/stacker be able to pass over the grate easily? (A tiny pebble in the way stops my
    jack AND stacker in its tracks). It would be a disaster to have a trench in the floor and be unable to cross it with the stacker!!!!!
    5. Will a 2% grade on each side, meeting the drain be sufficient? Will this sort of grade pose problems for the stacker/fork/pallet jack? If so, what solution is there? Again, potential disaster here.
    6. As a cidery, we don't have the same usage of hot liquid as breweries. But, cider is very acidic. It's eating away at our young floor already. What should we do to protect the new concrete (from cider, sulfite, etc)? And, what should the drain be made out of?
    7. Should it drain into our septic tank/septic field?

    Ok, lots of questions but would appreciate any help you can offer! Thanks!

    Mike

  • #2
    A couple of thoughts

    Trench drain - fine. You can get covers that can handle FLTs no problem, but obviously you kneed to have a chat with a reputable supplier to determine suitability.

    Personally I would go for a number of traps immediately under the gully as this eliminate open pipes, and does what they say - traps solids there, rather than halfway down a 30 metre drain. And reduces the pong from the inevitable decomposition of residues lying in a film in the drain.

    Position - middle of floor area? Not necessarily. If one side it virtually dry because it is mainly storage, and the other side is wet because of tanks, then the drain should be nearer the wet side - so it depends to a very large extent on your equipment layout and traffic.

    2% is the minimum, but of course greater angels may as you surmise, cause problems with wheel vehicles and unstable loads - so again, it depends to a large extent on the type of FLT and the loads they are carrying. If you have predominantly wet and a dry areas, then if FLTs don't go into the wet areas, you could use a higher angle on this side that the dry side.

    Contact the suppliers for suitability of different floor materials for use with FLTs etc. - not all are, but they may be fine for non FLT areas.

    Polyurethane resin or suitable tiles - more expensive than some - but Ucrete or Kemtiles have proven robust.

    My experience of large cider plants is that there should be no reason why you can't push the effluent into a septic tank etc - if you don't where are you going to send it to? You may need a bit of pH adjustment etc.
    dick

    Comment


    • #3
      We put 2 new ones in the brewery. we used fiberglass and they are ll presloped so they drain very quickly. You will need a grate so you can have traffic go over it we used cast removable grates. Biggest issue with these is the acids we use has rusted some of the grates and given your cider it will only be worse SS was available but the costs was about $400 for a 36" section way expensive for my blood so I just deal with it. There are plastic grates but they distort from the weight and end up not fitting in the trough and OSHA wants the grates in there. I really like our drains short of that. I would suggest you take pics of the plumbing before you pour the floors that way you have a record of where everything is should you need to dig anything up say for expansion. Get as many clean outs as possible it sure helps if there is a plug.
      Mike Eme
      Brewmaster

      Comment


      • #4
        Flooring

        I would love to lend a hand! feel free to call, email or even text me. We have installed over 130 Brewery floors successfully!

        Cheers All!!

        Chris Klein
        Chris@cascadefloors.com
        541-510-1080
        Cascade Floors is an industrial flooring company specializing in epoxy or resin based floor and wall systems to cover and protect concrete and other surfaces.
        Chris Klein
        Cell 541-510-1080
        Office (503) 769-6823
        WWW.CASCADEFLOORS.COM
        chris@cascadefloors.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Concrete floor in cidery....

          My health department won't accept bare, unsealed concrete. Sure wouldn't want it in a cidery! Drips from tank valves would eat the floor. There are concrete sealers, but most don't last long given your service. I've found Flo-Crete to be the best floor I've worked on. Stands up amazing with heavy use and still looks great. Trenches are available pre-sloped and grated from many sources. I've had good luck with ACO drain in my cidery. One thing I strive for in any new floor is to have right angles in the trench somewhere to make floor cleaning easy. A single linear trench won't be as easy to clean floors with. Right angles trap the water into the trench. Good luck!
          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Dick,

            Thanks for your help! Can you explain what you mean by "traps under the gully". I'm imagining a trench with grate covering. Would the trap be like a screen just beneath the grate to catch debris, preventing solids from reaching the drain?

            Thanks again!
            Mike

            Originally posted by dick murton View Post
            A couple of thoughts

            Trench drain - fine. You can get covers that can handle FLTs no problem, but obviously you kneed to have a chat with a reputable supplier to determine suitability.

            Personally I would go for a number of traps immediately under the gully as this eliminate open pipes, and does what they say - traps solids there, rather than halfway down a 30 metre drain. And reduces the pong from the inevitable decomposition of residues lying in a film in the drain.

            Position - middle of floor area? Not necessarily. If one side it virtually dry because it is mainly storage, and the other side is wet because of tanks, then the drain should be nearer the wet side - so it depends to a very large extent on your equipment layout and traffic.

            2% is the minimum, but of course greater angels may as you surmise, cause problems with wheel vehicles and unstable loads - so again, it depends to a large extent on the type of FLT and the loads they are carrying. If you have predominantly wet and a dry areas, then if FLTs don't go into the wet areas, you could use a higher angle on this side that the dry side.

            Contact the suppliers for suitability of different floor materials for use with FLTs etc. - not all are, but they may be fine for non FLT areas.

            Polyurethane resin or suitable tiles - more expensive than some - but Ucrete or Kemtiles have proven robust.

            My experience of large cider plants is that there should be no reason why you can't push the effluent into a septic tank etc - if you don't where are you going to send it to? You may need a bit of pH adjustment etc.

            Comment


            • #7
              If you were using a number of point drains, each of those would have a U bend trap fitted to them to trap any solids, and prevent the smell from further down the sewer system wafting back into the production area. For the sort of length you are talking about, I would want the gully having more than one U bend - at least three. So all the grate sections , particularly those immediately above the U bend need to be liftable, so should the gully itself or the U bends block or start to smell, you can clean them out easily.

              If you are having a stand alone CIP set, feed the discharge from this directly into a stainless tun dish with drop pipe into the U trap bend (for some reason in the UK at least, often called a P trap), linked directly to the drain system rather than draining CIP fluids via the floor into the main trench gully.
              dick

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Mike, great advice about clean outs and photos of the plumbing. Mike

                Originally posted by beerguy1 View Post
                We put 2 new ones in the brewery. we used fiberglass and they are ll presloped so they drain very quickly. You will need a grate so you can have traffic go over it we used cast removable grates. Biggest issue with these is the acids we use has rusted some of the grates and given your cider it will only be worse SS was available but the costs was about $400 for a 36" section way expensive for my blood so I just deal with it. There are plastic grates but they distort from the weight and end up not fitting in the trough and OSHA wants the grates in there. I really like our drains short of that. I would suggest you take pics of the plumbing before you pour the floors that way you have a record of where everything is should you need to dig anything up say for expansion. Get as many clean outs as possible it sure helps if there is a plug.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the tips Phillip! I'll look into Flo-Crete and ACO drain. Interesting point about right angles, hadn't thought of that! Mike

                  Originally posted by gitchegumee View Post
                  My health department won't accept bare, unsealed concrete. Sure wouldn't want it in a cidery! Drips from tank valves would eat the floor. There are concrete sealers, but most don't last long given your service. I've found Flo-Crete to be the best floor I've worked on. Stands up amazing with heavy use and still looks great. Trenches are available pre-sloped and grated from many sources. I've had good luck with ACO drain in my cidery. One thing I strive for in any new floor is to have right angles in the trench somewhere to make floor cleaning easy. A single linear trench won't be as easy to clean floors with. Right angles trap the water into the trench. Good luck!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trench Drains for Cider Facility

                    Mike,

                    I'd be happy to talk to you about drains for your facility. We specialize in food and beverage processing and have a number of cider, winery and brewery clients that I'm sure would be happy to talk to you.
                    Please email me or call me Toll Free.

                    Thank you,

                    Viking Kristjansson, C.E.T
                    VP Sales
                    Office: (204) 831-1780 ext. 108
                    Toll Free: 855.497.7508 ext. 108
                    Email: viking@slotdrainsystems.com
                    www.slotdrainsystems.comClick image for larger version

Name:	slot logo.png
Views:	1
Size:	39.3 KB
ID:	191209

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X