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Thread: All of the Tax Payment Questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
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    Question All of the Tax Payment Questions

    Because the TTB doesn't answer their phone or return my calls, I thought maybe you kind folks could help me out. I obtained my license in early November and starting now in December I'll be selling my first beer (nano, self-distribution, no on-premises).

    1. Do I "owe" the TTB any "empty" statements for November, prior to production?

    2. 5130.9 is due quarterly for sub 10k barrels, so due by January 15 for 4th quarter 2016? And this would only be AFTER filing my first monthly? Say, for November 2016? Is this done by paper only, via mail?

    3. 5130.26 - is this in addition to 5130.9? I'm not a brewpub, just direct distribution, but how do I know whether I owe them this or not? Paper/mail?

    4. 5000.24 - This is submitted every two weeks, correct? Paper copy via mail? Or can all of this ALL be done via pay.gov?

    5. Pay.gov. I signed up, got an account, but couldn't search for 5000.24, so I called and they said the TTB has to set up my account so that I can pay beer taxes, I couldn't do so on my own. Is this correct?

    6. Records. Can I use any system of doing this? Such as a notebook with volume, O.G., F.G., kegging, destroyed beer, and whatever "beer concentrate" is?

    7. For the love of God, tell me what else I'm missing.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    4
    Ok fellas, TTB got back to me. I can help if anybody else is curious:

    This is for smaller breweries, sub-10K bbl/year.

    Form 5130.26, turned in quarterly, to the Cincinnati TTB address.

    Form 5000.24, you must qualify and be in the system as quarterly, or you are semi-monthly. Use serial number field as YEAR-#, so 2016-4 for 4th quarter 2016, in my case 2016-1, because it is my FIRST payment of the year. These are due by the 13th-14th after quarter end: https://www.ttb.gov/tax_audit/fed_ex_tax_due.shtml

    Pay.gov must be set up by TTB personally for brewery payments. You must pay 48 hours prior to deadline, or postmark on the day of the deadline.

    5000.24 will switch to annual in 2017 for qualifying breweries. Here is help on that form:

    https://www.ttb.gov/forms/helpful_hints500024.shtml

    The $1,000 bond will not be required for qualifying breweries:

    https://www.ttb.gov/news/path-act-initial-notice.shtml

    https://www.ttb.gov/pdf/ttb-g2016-4-...s-guidance.pdf


    Hope that helps.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Amarillo, TX, USA
    Posts
    29
    Thanks for the info.
    Cheers,

    Colin Cummings
    Amarillo, TX

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    canby, oregon
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by jrizos View Post
    Because the TTB doesn't answer their phone or return my calls, I thought maybe you kind folks could help me out. I obtained my license in early November and starting now in December I'll be selling my first beer (nano, self-distribution, no on-premises).

    1. Do I "owe" the TTB any "empty" statements for November, prior to production?
    Ok, so similar situation. Do you owe the TTB any empty statements? Did you get an answer to this? I got TTB approval after 6 weeks, not sure how, but not quite ready to brew yet, do I need to start sending in empty zero sum statements?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by wwwp View Post
    Ok, so similar situation. Do you owe the TTB any empty statements? Did you get an answer to this? I got TTB approval after 6 weeks, not sure how, but not quite ready to brew yet, do I need to start sending in empty zero sum statements?
    Yes. Send them a zero statement. But seriously 6 weeks since filling and you got your notice? Did the President call down there on your behalf?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    canby, oregon
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by foestauf View Post
    Yes. Send them a zero statement. But seriously 6 weeks since filling and you got your notice? Did the President call down there on your behalf?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    Yah, no idea, just got lucky, simple application maybe?

    Ok, so couple more question.

    So on the Brewery Operations form, the first month I need to fill out 5130.9, and in the remarks state I will be filing quarterly going forward right? Then the following quarter use form 5130.26 right?

    On the Excise Tax form, 5000.24, do you need to do a semi-monthly initial form, then again state you'll be changing to quarterly or annual going forward?

    Can both of these be submitted through Pay.gov? Also, in the approval email it said I was automatically signed up for Pay.gov, was I supposed to receive an email with login info?

    Thank you!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Englewood, CO, USA
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by wwwp View Post
    Yah, no idea, just got lucky, simple application maybe?

    Ok, so couple more question.

    So on the Brewery Operations form, the first month I need to fill out 5130.9, and in the remarks state I will be filing quarterly going forward right? Then the following quarter use form 5130.26 right?

    On the Excise Tax form, 5000.24, do you need to do a semi-monthly initial form, then again state you'll be changing to quarterly or annual going forward?

    Can both of these be submitted through Pay.gov? Also, in the approval email it said I was automatically signed up for Pay.gov, was I supposed to receive an email with login info?

    Thank you!
    If you don't plan on owing more than $50,000 in taxes for the year you can file your operations report Quarterly, right off the bat. You can use either form 5130.9 or 5130.26 for filing quarterly. You shouldn't need to send in an initial monthly 5130.9 telling them you're switching to quarterly.

    Similar with the excise tax form, you can file quarterly right off the bat if you owe less than $50,000 for the year, or yearly if you own less than $1,000 for the year.

    You should be able to submit your reports through pay.gov.
    Tame the TTB!
    www.ttbtamer.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    49
    If you figure out how to submit through pay.gov please provide that information? I tried to figure it out and was not successful. The paper version is really easy but I like doing things electronically vs searching for the stamps I haven't used in forever.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oakton, VA
    Posts
    35

    Pay.gov user agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by foestauf View Post
    If you figure out how to submit through pay.gov please provide that information? I tried to figure it out and was not successful. The paper version is really easy but I like doing things electronically vs searching for the stamps I haven't used in forever.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    If you are a signing authority or a power of attorney for your brewer's notice, you are eligible to sign up to file returns and BROP's through pay.gov. Again, you first need to make sure you either have signing authority or POA approved for the brewer's notice. Then, you need to fill out the Pay.gov User's Agreement and mail the original to TTB in Cincinnati (the address is on page 4 of the form).

    I believe if you were the signing authority for a new brewer's notice application they automatically sign you up for a Pay.gov account. I believe it takes a week or so after approval of your brewer's notice for them to send you info for setting up your account.

    Dan Christopherson, Associate Attorney
    Lehrman Beverage Law, PLLC
    202-449-3739, ext. 708 (phone) | dan.christopherson@bevlaw.com | www.bevlaw.com

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