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Thread: How important is first in last out?

  1. #1
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    Nov 2016
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    bryan, ohio
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    How important is first in last out?

    1.5 hp chiller and four 7 bbl tanks. The furthest tanks is about 45' from the chiller. How critical is the FILO?

    Also, how big a y strainer do I need. Where would I source that? McMaster?
    Last edited by fjbrewer; 12-22-2016 at 07:59 AM.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2007
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    Florence, Alabama
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    If you don't have first in, last out, when you have more than one tank calling for glycol at a time you will end up with one not getting cooled properly. I wouldn't set up a system any other way, and there is not reason not to do it that way when it's installed. The flow really needs to be balanced. For a Y strainer, typically I have seen them on the trunk line at the point the line returns to the chiller, so whatever size the trunk line is.

  3. #3
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    Check. The only reason not to do it is 'cause it means more pipe. It's a pretty small cost in the grand sceme, but I know the owner is going to ask why, so I'm asking now just to stay ahead of it.

  4. #4
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    Nevada City, CA
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    I have 1.5HP Chillstar servicing 4-7bbls and 2-15 bbl FVs. I did not know enough when having the supply/return headers plumbed to have it done FILO. That said though, I have noticed no problems chilling, though it is rare to be crashing more than 2 at a time. Crashing a tank to 34 from say, 65 takes probably 10 hours or so if solo. Soft crashes (68 to 58) are within an hour or so.
    Dave Cowie
    Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
    Nevada City, CA

  5. #5
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    Jun 2007
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    Jacksonville FL
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    Its not important at all at that scale. We have 5 x 15s 4 x 30s, 2 x 15 brites, 1 x 30 brite, and a 35hl foudre with a chill plate, plus a 25BBL CLT... all are plumbed in with the shortest run to the header and it is absolutely not a problem, even with multiple tanks chilling. FILO plumbing is one of those engineering ideals that is theoretically better but doesn't have any practical effect until you reach a much larger scale, I'm not sure where it begins to kick in, but it isn't anywhere near the size you are talking about.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2016
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    Bulverde, TX, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickfl View Post
    Its not important at all at that scale. We have 5 x 15s 4 x 30s, 2 x 15 brites, 1 x 30 brite, and a 35hl foudre with a chill plate, plus a 25BBL CLT... all are plumbed in with the shortest run to the header and it is absolutely not a problem, even with multiple tanks chilling. FILO plumbing is one of those engineering ideals that is theoretically better but doesn't have any practical effect until you reach a much larger scale, I'm not sure where it begins to kick in, but it isn't anywhere near the size you are talking about.
    Hey there nickfl- if you don't mind sharing... What size of chiller do you have? Also, is your cellar environmentally controlled.

    The reason I ask is I'm currently planning my brewery and want to build-out it out with plenty of growth factored in. I'm in southern Texas where temps can get 100+, I don't plan on having the brewery environmentally controlled and wanted to account for ambient temperatures in the brewery as well.

    Thanks in advance!

    Steve

  7. #7
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    Duluth, MN
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    Its part of the right and best way of doing a glycol system, anything else is a compromise. What else are you compromising on? Old hops, slack malt.... The right tool for the job, do it right the first time ect.
    Brewmaster, Fitger's Brewhouse
    tbriggs@justtakeaction.com
    "Your results may vary"

  8. #8
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    Nov 2016
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    bryan, ohio
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    Kinda like how you compromised with "ect."?
    Sorry, I couldn't help poking at a little typo.

    But honestly, I see your point. But of course, you realize we HAVE to make compromises every day. I really want X hop, but I can't afford it at the market price, or perhaps it's completely sold out... what do I do? Find a hop that's similar? stop making that beer? See my point.

  9. #9
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    Jun 2007
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    Jacksonville FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve La Flam View Post
    Hey there nickfl- if you don't mind sharing... What size of chiller do you have? Also, is your cellar environmentally controlled.

    The reason I ask is I'm currently planning my brewery and want to build-out it out with plenty of growth factored in. I'm in southern Texas where temps can get 100+, I don't plan on having the brewery environmentally controlled and wanted to account for ambient temperatures in the brewery as well.

    Thanks in advance!

    Steve
    We don't have ambient temp control, it gets well into the upper 90s here in summer. We started with a 5 ton unit (and a word about chiller rating here: tonnage is relative to the temperature it is rated at, this manufacturer rated this chiller at 5 tons at a lower temperature than another popular manufacturer who rates their chillers at a high temp, and therefore would have labeled this same chiller as 7.5 tons, either way you get the same functional chilling power, so buyer beware). We just added an additional 10 ton unit from the same manufacturer. These are modular units, so you have a standalone glycol reservoir and separate chiller, so you can add an additional chiller unit relatively easily.

    With the original unit we were running 5 x 15BBL Fvs, 4 x 30BBL Fvs, 2 x 15BBL brite, 1 x 30BBL brite, and a 27BBL cold liquor tank. This really struggled to keep up last summer, even though we were only running at about 70% of full capacity. When the weather cooled down it improved notably, so the ambient temp does make a difference. Now that we tripled our chiller capacity it runs like a dream and I expect I could add another 2-3 30s and brite without hitting another wall. The 5 ton unit (7.5 by some standards) got us to 1600BBL/year production, though some months we were brewing at more like an 1800BBL pace. I expect the current 15ton setup (22ish tons from someone else), will get us to a capacity of around 3500-4000 BBL annually before we have to upgrade our glycol system again as part of an expansion.

  10. #10
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    Jacksonville FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Briggs View Post
    Its part of the right and best way of doing a glycol system, anything else is a compromise. What else are you compromising on? Old hops, slack malt.... The right tool for the job, do it right the first time ect.
    The right tool and the most elaborate, expensive tool are not necessarily the same thing. Keep it simple stupid (since were proving our points with folksy sayings). For instance old hops and poorly modified malt can be useful if you are making certain things, say a traditional lambic style wort with turbid mash.
    Last edited by nickfl; 01-19-2017 at 02:57 PM.

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