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Thread: whirlpool hopping

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sweden
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    134

    whirlpool hopping

    Ive tried to do last hop (pellets) addition in whirlpool instead of in kettle after turning the gas off. The hop aroma is better and more intensvie but I have also got a problem with some hops in heat exchanger. I add the hops in whirlpool just after starting pumping in wort in the whirlpool. After that I have pumped in all wort in the whirlpool from kettle I let the whirl stop (10 minutes) and then I start cooling. I start from a valve which is about 5 cm up on the side of the tank from bottom. Bottom is conical towards drain.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    St.Louis->Tacoma
    Posts
    633
    Do you purge the wort from the pump after you shut down whirlpool? If not that hoppy wort is sitting in your pump and lines while the cone forms.
    Last edited by Jephro; 11-09-2006 at 01:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Shanghai, P.R. China
    Posts
    158
    If I understand correctly you're pumping to a seperate vessel most likely with a seperate pump. Not sure if you have any obstructions in your WH; ie ladder. Also curious if your trub pile is compact? Regardless...You might want to try extending your WH rest. I think 20 min is a very typical rest time before wort cooling. A wort cutoff limit may be a good idea to avoid sucking excess trub from the WH and packing your HE. Good luck!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    6
    A 30 min rest is more common. Also when the trub cone starts to show slow down feed to the heat ex. Slowing down the pace helps keep the pile intact.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Hastings, MI, USA
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    263
    I'd like to be able to slow the flow rate down when I see my trub cone, but to do so would make me have to dink around with a bunch of valves and water flow rates to keep the temp. constant, heaven knows it took me long enough to figure out "this valve open two clicks, this one 3 clicks, water inlet open to 5 o'clock...".....
    Sometime I get a great trub pile and pull off almost all the wort, other times, not so good. I suppose it has to do partly with the fact that I don't use any kettle finings or coagulants at all.
    "By man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world" -- St. Arnold of Metz

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Rapperswil, Switzerland
    Posts
    58

    whirlpool hopping

    I have the same problem as you.
    I agree with jolly roger and Rob, lower the pump speed - if possible - when the trub cone appears. I can and do and it helps a lot.

    One problem appears to be that not all the pellets soak up wort and dissipate. The soggy but intact pellets are the ones that don't end up in the trub cone and get sucked into the pump.
    A good suggestion that I have gleened from this forum is an in-line mesh filter. The following link might be of use, I got it from somebody else, I don't know who anymore. I haven't followed it up yet
    http://www.rubberfab.com/gasket_v2b.html
    Last edited by aswissbrewer; 11-12-2006 at 02:51 AM. Reason: forgot the link once more

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Posts
    83

    WP hopping

    Oppigards,

    I have four recommendations for you. I am assuming here you have a tangential inlet on your whirlpool.

    The first recommendation is adding your hops later into your knockout. This might be counter intuitive; however you will see increased hop aroma and better trub pile formation. You are trying to avoid torus eddys and high shear on your trub. Add your hops after your inlet is submerged. Make sure you are dispersing your hops into the flow against the wall with your inlet. Limit your inlet velocity to 3.5 m/s. Consider these numbers for your WP design. If you have a height to diameter ratio of .7 your inlet velocity should be 6 times your wort volume. If you have a .8 H/D, your wort inlet should be 5.5 times your wort volume. If you have a H/D ratio of 1 you should have a inlet flow of 5 times your wort volume. These numbers allow you to have a total of 10-15 minutes fill time.

    The second recommendation is to allow your WP rest to be longer. Ten minutes is great if you have good sedimentation properties. I would experiment with adding time in five minute increments. For example, 15,20,30 min. Do not exceed 30 for ales. Do not exceed 20 for lagers. DMS is your enemy here

    The fourth recommendation is to figure a way to slow your draw-off once your wort is about 5-10 cm above your trub pile. Watch your temperatures and dissolved oxygen of your wort.

    The final recommendation is a bag filter. We have one from Filtration Systems. Do not use this until you have your other problems eliminated. This will eliminate carryover to your heat exchanger.

    - Todd

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    1,073
    Sounds like you are collecting the trub, and then running it off through the PHE at the last minute. Your final take off point must be away from the hop cone, towards the edge of the WP otherwise you will drag all the trub into the PHE and block it. Also, you may simply be overloading the WP with vegetation.

    Do a drawing in a word attachment of your WP design. It clears a multitude of problems and will let us help better.
    dick

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    kelowna b.c. canada 3049 holland rd. kelowna b.c.
    Posts
    27

    wirl-pool by hand

    If Your Using A 10 Hec. Kettle Or Less I Found Whirl-pool By Hand Gave Me A Better Wirl-pool,added Pellet Hop To Out Side Of Pool,for 1.5 K Hops Clockwise Over Ccw,i Found That Ccw Made The Bed ,not So High, The Lower Valve Is Not Used,25 Min. Rest Is Best,you Could Dump The First 2 Litres To Clear Your Pump.basicly I Avoid Your Problem Cheers Don

  10. #10
    biz82 Guest

    Filtration Systems

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd
    Oppigards,

    The final recommendation is a bag filter. We have one from Filtration Systems. Do not use this until you have your other problems eliminated. This will eliminate carryover to your heat exchanger.

    - Todd
    Todd,
    do you have contact info for Filtration Systems?
    thanks,
    Josh

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    134
    Last batches has worked a lot better.

    I have started to run off 1 liter (or until the wort is free from hops) of wort from the first draw off pipe before connecting the pump.

    For some reason, I do not really know why, has the hop cone got more compact and I have been able to run off nearly all wort. The only change as I know is that I have cruched the malt to course so I have got 5-7 % less wort than usual.

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