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  • whirlpool hopping

    I´ve tried to do last hop (pellets) addition in whirlpool instead of in kettle after turning the gas off. The hop aroma is better and more intensvie but I have also got a problem with some hops in heat exchanger. I add the hops in whirlpool just after starting pumping in wort in the whirlpool. After that I have pumped in all wort in the whirlpool from kettle I let the whirl stop (10 minutes) and then I start cooling. I start from a valve which is about 5 cm up on the side of the tank from bottom. Bottom is conical towards drain.

  • #2
    Do you purge the wort from the pump after you shut down whirlpool? If not that hoppy wort is sitting in your pump and lines while the cone forms.
    Last edited by Jephro; 11-09-2006, 02:58 PM.
    Jeff Byrne

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    • #3
      If I understand correctly you're pumping to a seperate vessel most likely with a seperate pump. Not sure if you have any obstructions in your WH; ie ladder. Also curious if your trub pile is compact? Regardless...You might want to try extending your WH rest. I think 20 min is a very typical rest time before wort cooling. A wort cutoff limit may be a good idea to avoid sucking excess trub from the WH and packing your HE. Good luck!
      Mike Jordan
      Brewmaster
      Boxing Cat Brewery
      Shanghai, P.R. China
      michael@boxingcatbrewery.com

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      • #4
        A 30 min rest is more common. Also when the trub cone starts to show slow down feed to the heat ex. Slowing down the pace helps keep the pile intact.

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        • #5
          I'd like to be able to slow the flow rate down when I see my trub cone, but to do so would make me have to dink around with a bunch of valves and water flow rates to keep the temp. constant, heaven knows it took me long enough to figure out "this valve open two clicks, this one 3 clicks, water inlet open to 5 o'clock...".....
          Sometime I get a great trub pile and pull off almost all the wort, other times, not so good. I suppose it has to do partly with the fact that I don't use any kettle finings or coagulants at all.
          "By man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world" -- St. Arnold of Metz

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          • #6
            whirlpool hopping

            I have the same problem as you.
            I agree with jolly roger and Rob, lower the pump speed - if possible - when the trub cone appears. I can and do and it helps a lot.

            One problem appears to be that not all the pellets soak up wort and dissipate. The soggy but intact pellets are the ones that don't end up in the trub cone and get sucked into the pump.
            A good suggestion that I have gleened from this forum is an in-line mesh filter. The following link might be of use, I got it from somebody else, I don't know who anymore. I haven't followed it up yet
            Last edited by aswissbrewer; 11-12-2006, 03:51 AM. Reason: forgot the link once more

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            • #7
              WP hopping

              Oppigards,

              I have four recommendations for you. I am assuming here you have a tangential inlet on your whirlpool.

              The first recommendation is adding your hops later into your knockout. This might be counter intuitive; however you will see increased hop aroma and better trub pile formation. You are trying to avoid torus eddys and high shear on your trub. Add your hops after your inlet is submerged. Make sure you are dispersing your hops into the flow against the wall with your inlet. Limit your inlet velocity to 3.5 m/s. Consider these numbers for your WP design. If you have a height to diameter ratio of .7 your inlet velocity should be 6 times your wort volume. If you have a .8 H/D, your wort inlet should be 5.5 times your wort volume. If you have a H/D ratio of 1 you should have a inlet flow of 5 times your wort volume. These numbers allow you to have a total of 10-15 minutes fill time.

              The second recommendation is to allow your WP rest to be longer. Ten minutes is great if you have good sedimentation properties. I would experiment with adding time in five minute increments. For example, 15,20,30 min. Do not exceed 30 for ales. Do not exceed 20 for lagers. DMS is your enemy here

              The fourth recommendation is to figure a way to slow your draw-off once your wort is about 5-10 cm above your trub pile. Watch your temperatures and dissolved oxygen of your wort.

              The final recommendation is a bag filter. We have one from Filtration Systems. Do not use this until you have your other problems eliminated. This will eliminate carryover to your heat exchanger.

              - Todd
              Todd Malloy
              Director of Brewing
              Glenwood Canyon Brewing Co.
              Glenwood Springs, Colorado

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              • #8
                Sounds like you are collecting the trub, and then running it off through the PHE at the last minute. Your final take off point must be away from the hop cone, towards the edge of the WP otherwise you will drag all the trub into the PHE and block it. Also, you may simply be overloading the WP with vegetation.

                Do a drawing in a word attachment of your WP design. It clears a multitude of problems and will let us help better.
                dick

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                • #9
                  wirl-pool by hand

                  If Your Using A 10 Hec. Kettle Or Less I Found Whirl-pool By Hand Gave Me A Better Wirl-pool,added Pellet Hop To Out Side Of Pool,for 1.5 K Hops Clockwise Over Ccw,i Found That Ccw Made The Bed ,not So High, The Lower Valve Is Not Used,25 Min. Rest Is Best,you Could Dump The First 2 Litres To Clear Your Pump.basicly I Avoid Your Problem Cheers Don

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                  • #10
                    Filtration Systems

                    Originally posted by Todd
                    Oppigards,

                    The final recommendation is a bag filter. We have one from Filtration Systems. Do not use this until you have your other problems eliminated. This will eliminate carryover to your heat exchanger.

                    - Todd
                    Todd,
                    do you have contact info for Filtration Systems?
                    thanks,
                    Josh

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                    • #11
                      Last batches has worked a lot better.

                      I have started to run off 1 liter (or until the wort is free from hops) of wort from the first draw off pipe before connecting the pump.

                      For some reason, I do not really know why, has the hop cone got more compact and I have been able to run off nearly all wort. The only change as I know is that I have cruched the malt to course so I have got 5-7 % less wort than usual.

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