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Dixon - Plummeting Quality

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  • Dixon - Plummeting Quality

    Hate this stuff. But, this needs to be said. I have used Dixon quick disconnects for 30 years. Never had a failure like this. Brought it to my local distributor; Associated Hose, and Dixon. Warned them I would be bringing this to your attention. Their response is below.

    These components were installed on the CIP line on our fermentation vessels and brights. We have been doing this for 15 years. We installed a new brewhouse and several new tanks in May-2015. Bought 10 stainless Dixon quick disconnects at that time. Associated hose knew it. We had discussions about the new system and what we were doing. Started having trouble maintaining pressure on these tanks in about October-2016. Finally had several failures and nailed the problem down in December-2016. These components are $23.75 each. They should last longer than 18 months!

    It is my opinion that Dixon is letting the quality slide by using a sub-standard stainless. I never had these problems before this. This is a warning to anyone using or planning to use these components. They will rust and fail. I will let you all evaluate Associated Hose Products in Portland Oregon, and their performance in this situation. I can tell you that they are no longer on our approved vendor list!

    Ken Johnson
    Fearless Brewing Company
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Rodney Evans [mailto:rod@ahphose.com]
    Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 11:26 AM
    To: kj@fearless1.com
    Cc: cjarman@dixonvalve.com
    Subject: RE: FW: Dixon 2F stainless quick disconnects

    Ken, We don't need a week. It's unfortunate that you are unhappy with your misuse of this product. We stand behind Dixon Valves quality and so do they. The quick connects are long past their warranty period. It's unfortunate that you are causing so much of an issue over $95.00 dollars worth of products that you used for a year and a half incorrectly. We have sold hundreds of these couplings to breweries all over the country, we have had no other issues regarding this product. We are sorry that you feel you have been wronged, but there will be no credit or replacement for this product. If that causes you to not want to do business with Associated Hose Products Inc. in the future than so be it.

    Regards,
    Patrick Evans.

    P.S. By the way we never took vacation.
    ________________________________________
    From: Ken Johnson [kj@fearless1.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 2:09 PM
    To: 'Chris Jarman'
    Cc: Rodney Evans
    Subject: RE: FW: Dixon 2F stainless quick disconnects

    OK Fellas,

    Our vacations are over. Production is back in swing. New employees are trained. I can get back to projects now. This situation is one. So everyone wants to ignore this instead of treating it as a chance to learn about our customers and how to better serve them. You’d rather be right than take an opportunity to display excellent customer service to your employees, your customer base, and the industry in general. OK, I understand.

    That just isn’t the way I do business personally. If a customer complains about a keg or a can of beer, I replace it or give them their money back, period. I may bitch about it to myself, but it gets fixed cheerfully at the time. I used to be in the automotive aftermarket industry. Same deal. We did what it took to take care of the customer. I didn’t sell components I knew were not right for the application. Not because I couldn’t have. But, because it isn’t honest! That was my job to make sure the customer got the right component. My customers didn’t build engines or grind crankshafts for a living. I did! Even if they didn’t know better, I did. It’s called integrity. Look it up. That’s just the kind of businessman I want to be. It certainly hasn’t hurt me in the end. Sometimes it stings at the time! But, I look in the mirror and like who I see. The goodwill has followed me all these years and comes back in spades!

    I want you to know that brewers tend to gab about work as much or more than any industry extant. We tend to make a big deal about stuff and people that work. And, about stuff and people that don’t. I’m going to take these photos of my connectors; assembled and disassembled, and share this with the world specifically targeting my industry. You can hide behind this inferior stainless you use and how you disclosed this and how I should have known. But, you know better. You shouldn’t be selling these inferior components to the brewing industry. You both know it. I will give you both till the end of the week to fix this.

    Ken Johnson
    Fearless Brewing Company
    Attached Files

  • #2
    For CIP, you really should use industry standard sanitary fittings instead. Such as SMS, DIN, TC or perhaps RJT if that's your thing.

    Every connection we have is either DIN or SMS. Even for supply of co2 or compressed air if it is going into a product surface.

    Comment


    • #3
      update

      In the course of events we removed some Dixon quick disconnects that were on tanks in service since 2010. The component on the right (see picture below) was completely fine, no rust. Same components, same environment as the one on the left that we put in service 5/15. So somewhere between 2010 and 2015 Dixon changed the quality of their metal in these components. I think we all deserve to know this. I should have been told by my distributor; Associated Hose (who knew exactly how we were using these components) that the quality diminished.

      Ken Johnson
      Fearless Brewing Company
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        If I may ask, how were you using these? I have Dixon stainless quick connects on all of our co2 lines, and while they've performed well this is making me question if I should continue using them. The ones pictured clearly aren't stainless and if the company is advertising them as stainless thats a huge problem.

        By the way, I can't believe the response from your dealer in that email. I would be absolutely livid if one of my suppliers responded to a problem like that, wow.

        Comment


        • #5
          They are in the CIP arm. So yes, they were exposed to peracetic acid (diluted for sterilization) and caustic. My beef is that I was told by distributors that this was OK. They're stainless right? How many breweries out there use them? I'm thinking a lot. What everyone is telling me now is that these components are absolutely not appropriate for a brewery. That's not what I was told before this happened. Associate Hose said that they have sold hundreds of these components to breweries. Clearly the quality changed somewhere between 2010 and 5/2015.

          What we've done now is to use a mini ball valve to close off the disconnects to CIP flow when not applying CO2 pressure to the tank. And yes, Associated Hose is NOT on our approved vendor list any more. Suggest everyone else do the same!

          Ken Johnson
          Fearless Brewing Company

          Originally posted by TonyT View Post
          If I may ask, how were you using these? I have Dixon stainless quick connects on all of our co2 lines, and while they've performed well this is making me question if I should continue using them. The ones pictured clearly aren't stainless and if the company is advertising them as stainless thats a huge problem.

          By the way, I can't believe the response from your dealer in that email. I would be absolutely livid if one of my suppliers responded to a problem like that, wow.

          Comment


          • #6
            We've been using Associated Hose in Ptown for a couple of years as a source of our brewery hoses. We use TC connections on all our hoses. We've had nothing but good experiences with AH. Our first batch of brewery hoses had some loose crimps on the hose ends (internally expanded crimps for sterile use), and AH fixed the problem with no arguments or problems.

            We use Foster QDs for our CO2 drops. These are good quality, but the locking balls are not stainless, even 'though the product is advertised as "all stainless steel". I replace the balls with some 440C stainless balls from McMaster-Carr, but shouldn't have to do this with a new product. I notified Foster about this problem, and got a simple "Thank You" for a reply.

            I suspect that there is a lot of Chinese-made "stainless steel" on the market right now, and much of it seems to be sub-standard, to say the least.
            Timm Turrentine

            Brewerywright,
            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
            Enterprise. Oregon.

            Comment


            • #7
              Update 5/4/17

              After some back and forth with Dixon, they asked me to send them samples of my rusted components and 1 of the good ones. Here was what they found...
              ----------------------------------------------------
              Ken,

              I wanted to give you an update on our findings.

              We reviewed the parts you sent back and determined the couplings, 2FM2-S, were assembled with the incorrect valves. Those incorrect valves were made of carbon steel instead of 303 stainless.

              The 2FM3-S that was sent back with no rust, was assembled with the correct valve.

              We've identified 2 potential causes for this occurrence:

              1. The carbon steel valves were mixed with stainless valves during assembly
              2. The machining center loaded the wrong material

              To isolate any more issues with mixed components in a stainless part, we have:

              1. Verified our component inventory is correct
              2. Verified our vendor inventory is correct
              3. Inspected our finished goods and verified that inventory is correct.

              This is an unfortunate scenario and we'd like to provide the appropriate replacements that meet your expectations. You sent back 3 2FM2-S and 1 2FM3-S. How many more couplers do you have that show signs of rust? We'd like to replace those. We apologize for any inconvenience.

              Thanks,

              Chris Jarman


              Chris Jarman
              Dixon Quick Coupling Sales Manager
              Dixon Valve & Coupling
              Mobile: 443-480-9462
              CJarman@dixonvalve.com
              ---------------------------------------------------------
              I was pretty jacked that they admitted I was right the whole time and wanted to send me actual stainless steel components. That's all I ever said from the beginning. They ain't stainless. The response from Associate Hose was to find anything they could justify it by. I never asked anyone to evaluate my setup. All I said was, "They ain't stainless". I contacted Associate Hose (who have been total jerks this whole time) and ask them what their response was. They claim I was at fault because I didn't follow proper return procedures. I have all of our correspondence and can prove that's BS!

              If you have Dixon Valve stainless quick disconnects, and they rusted/failed. Don't just let this go. Make Dixon replace them! If you deal with Associated Hose Products in Portland Oregon, please. Do yourself a favor. There are about 1000 other places that sell the same stuff, actually represent the manufacturers and work to be a positive partner in your business. Stay away from these jerks at Associated Hose! If you want further information about all this, please email me directly. I will be delighted to tell you all about it.

              Ken Johnson
              Fearless Brewing Company

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