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  • Overdosed with Biofine

    I made a math mistake and overdosed a 15bbl bt with 500ml too much biofine clear. On top of that it was my first time dosing a full batch. So... any suggestions?
    So far I have been slowly dumping the bottom of the tank. When I hit beer I stop, and then I start again later.
    I'm considering pushing unfined keg of the same beer into the bt, I should have just enough room.
    Anyone tried this?
    Any other suggestions?
    Thanks in advance

  • #2
    We dose our 15 bbl batches, usually WL001, with 2000mL of BFC? You trying to leave a little haze? Maybe we're "overdosing", it's what we've been using for years without any issues.

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    • #3
      We dose our 2 bbl batches with 100 ml. It's a bit on the high side but never have any problems with the beers.

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
      Jon Sheldon
      Owner/Brewer/Chief Floor Mopper
      Bugnutty Brewing Company
      www.bugnutty.com

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      • #4
        I guess I wasn't super clear, I dosed with 4000ml.it should have been 3400 based on my tests. Now that sounds super high. It's wy2112 yeast. Also I ended up just dumping a bunch of beige creamy stuff out of the bt for a couple of days, and then I hit clear (as clear as it was going to get) beer. Weird thing was indeed up dumping almost 80L, but in the end I know lost about 10L of beer. That stuff must expand like crazy.

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        • #5
          "I ended", not indeed

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          • #6
            we end up with, on average, a 1/2 bbl at the bottom of the tank that will get dumped. compare that to the waste during a filtration and its minimal not to mention the beating the beer will take.

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            • #7
              How much did you use, and what was your dose rate?

              Our BFC is labeled with a dose rate of 19 - 190ml/BBL. As long as you're in that range, you are fine.

              We usually dose our hoppy beers at 150ml/BBL, and about 100ml/BBL for everything else. Recently we increased our vorlauf times, and have greatly improved the clarity of our wort and subsequently finished beer, so we are going to dose a batch at 50ml/BBL and see if we like it.

              I do know in the past we have "double-dosed" a batch or two because someone failed to mark down they had already added it. I can't think of any issues with the beer.

              On the subject of BioFine, anyone else having issues with buildup/deposits in their tanks (mainly our Brites)? It looks like beerstone, but it absolutely is NOT beerstone. I have been trying to treat this buildup as beerstone with no luck for over a year. I attended a seminar with Dana from Birko who was saying BioFine will deposit on tanks in a similar fashion. Just curious if anyone else has come across this?

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              • #8
                been using BFC for at least 6 years now and haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary when we open our brites.
                curious to see if any others have this issue. how would you describe this build-up? can you manually remove it?

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                • #9
                  We are close to 3 years in on our new brites using BFC. We follow Birko's cold acid wash regimen. Every 1/2 dozen or so transfers we'll bleed the CO2 and break down the brite and clean with a hot alkaline followed by acid wash. I have not noticed anything when I inspect the cleaned brite using this regimen. I even bled the co2 after a closed acid wash and inspected the brite to see how it was working. Sparkling every time. Pretty happy with it.

                  As for dosing, we dose ~60ml/bbl for wlp007 beers and 100ml/bbl for wlp001 beers. The hoppiest (001) don't drop brilliant but they are pretty close.
                  Dave Cowie
                  Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
                  Nevada City, CA

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                  • #10
                    This has been lots of good info, I've got another question now though, does anyone ever worry about DO in biofine? (I don't go around shaking the jug), or if it's sterile?


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                    • #11
                      the DO would be very minuscule. i would think that the most concerning thing would be the way you administer it.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ibrewforyou View Post
                        been using BFC for at least 6 years now and haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary when we open our brites.
                        curious to see if any others have this issue. how would you describe this build-up? can you manually remove it?
                        I see it mostly in our 14BBL brite, which makes sense as this has had the most batches/BioFine through it. Looks like a mineral-like deposit (jagged boundary edges). There are 2 rings; one at 7bbl mark and one up top around 14bbl.

                        It looks almost identical to beerstone I have found/treated in our cooler, mainly on serving tanks. As far as treatment, I have hit it with every acid cleaner we have (#5, #6, #3AB) as well as our line cleaner (LLC). The same chemicals that dissolve beerstone in the cooler have no affect whatsoever on the deposits in our brite. High dose/high temp PBW does nothing. I am unable to scrub it with any scour pads or brushes, and I don't really want to take sandpaper to it and remove the passivation layer.

                        According to Birko/Dana, the only cure is a strong caustic (They say Cir-Q-Late) around 180ish for 60 minutes. He also noted that treating this deposit as beerstone only makes it harder to remove. Here is an email response from Dana/Birko:

                        Thank you for reaching out to me about the Biofine deposit. It resembles beerstone in appearance but it is silica based so acid will not pull it and actually makes it harder to remove. Our Cir-Q-Late (heavy-duty liquid CIP caustic cleaner) works best to remove the deposit but it has to be run concentrated, (1 gallon per 5 gallons water) and at high temperature, (160-180 d. F.) for 45-60 minutes, followed by a hot rinse as well. Even with that, it will sometimes not get all of it but will get the majority of it, and with repeated lower dosage maintenance cleanings of caustic, it will eventual come completely off.


                        I have yet to try this stuff, let alone buy it. Our concern is maintaining that high temp for 45-60 minutes as we currently don't have a CIP vessel with heating element. Changing out the rinse would make sense, but would waste a lot of the chemical. We want to use a small amount since we don't normally want or use caustics.
                        Last edited by jscottAT4; 04-27-2017, 12:05 PM. Reason: grammar, dummy!

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                        • #13
                          I have been using Biofine for about a year and have never noticed any residue in my brites. I always CIP with 2% caustic each time I clean them followed by 2% acid blend. I don't know if running a caustic cycle in brites is normal for most breweries as my predecessor did not. He only ran acid.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jscottAT4 View Post
                            I see it mostly in our 14BBL brite, which makes sense as this has had the most batches/BioFine through it. Looks like a mineral-like deposit (jagged boundary edges). There are 2 rings; one at 7bbl mark and one up top around 14bbl.

                            It looks almost identical to beerstone I have found/treated in our cooler, mainly on serving tanks. As far as treatment, I have hit it with every acid cleaner we have (#5, #6, #3AB) as well as our line cleaner (LLC). The same chemicals that dissolve beerstone in the cooler have no affect whatsoever on the deposits in our brite. High dose/high temp PBW does nothing. I am unable to scrub it with any scour pads or brushes, and I don't really want to take sandpaper to it and remove the passivation layer.

                            According to Birko/Dana, the only cure is a strong caustic (They say Cir-Q-Late) around 180ish for 60 minutes. He also noted that treating this deposit as beerstone only makes it harder to remove. Here is an email response from Dana/Birko:

                            Thank you for reaching out to me about the Biofine deposit. It resembles beerstone in appearance but it is silica based so acid will not pull it and actually makes it harder to remove. Our Cir-Q-Late (heavy-duty liquid CIP caustic cleaner) works best to remove the deposit but it has to be run concentrated, (1 gallon per 5 gallons water) and at high temperature, (160-180 d. F.) for 45-60 minutes, followed by a hot rinse as well. Even with that, it will sometimes not get all of it but will get the majority of it, and with repeated lower dosage maintenance cleanings of caustic, it will eventual come completely off.


                            I have yet to try this stuff, let alone buy it. Our concern is maintaining that high temp for 45-60 minutes as we currently don't have a CIP vessel with heating element. Changing out the rinse would make sense, but would waste a lot of the chemical. We want to use a small amount since we don't normally want or use caustics.
                            Get off PBW. It works reasonably well, but you will notice that when you make the switch to a gluconated caustic or even one with EDTA in it that your CIP times will be cut by a substantial amount. And, they clean better. Well worth the increased hassle of putting gloves and a face shield on to handle it. Also, its cheaper(maybe the best reason to switch).

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                            • #15
                              It depends on what yeast you're using, but generally I only dose our 30 bbl batches with 800 mL of biofine and we get crystal clear beer. We don't filter or anything. We tend to transfer into our brites pretty clear as it is. After 2 days, we're usually good to package. If we transfer in a little cloudy, I'll up that rate to about 1000 mL for 30 bbls, but honestly you don't need a whole lot. You might notice better head retention too if you back off your dosage.

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