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  • Large whirpool addition?

    Hi,

    Did a 8bbl batch of IPA. Added about 3.5 pounds @ 5min, about 13AAU. Chilled down to 190F and added 9pounds, whirpool 15, rest 15' then chilled. Haven't tasted it yet, should I worry of being to bitter? From my calculations it shouldnt be, or at least the perceptive bitterness should be moderate.

  • #2
    On our 7 bbl system I put around 12 lbs in the WP, WP for 5 minutes, rest for 20, then begin KO. I use 1lb or less FWH. According to my calcs (using Beersmith) I am getting about 85-90% of my IBUS from the WP. Bitterness seems just right for this particular recipe.
    Dave Cowie
    Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
    Nevada City, CA

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    • #3
      Originally posted by barleyfreak View Post
      On our 7 bbl system I put around 12 lbs in the WP, WP for 5 minutes, rest for 20, then begin KO. I use 1lb or less FWH. According to my calcs (using Beersmith) I am getting about 85-90% of my IBUS from the WP. Bitterness seems just right for this particular recipe.
      At what temperature you do the WP?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by RAN View Post
        At what temperature you do the WP?
        I dump the hops and WP after a 5 minute rest after flame out. So the temp is ~207.
        Dave Cowie
        Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
        Nevada City, CA

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        • #5
          The isomerization curves still have utilization down to about 175F - so if you want to avoid adding any bitterness / IBUs, you need to bring your wort down under 175F - not 190F.
          Ryan
          Viridian Brewing Company
          [Brewery-In-Planning]

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Viridian View Post
            The isomerization curves still have utilization down to about 175F - so if you want to avoid adding any bitterness / IBUs, you need to bring your wort down under 175F - not 190F.
            So, just to be clear, you are saying that isomerization of AA occurs even when adding hops during KO? How is it then that ProMash doesn't calculate that when I formulate an IPA?
            Thanks
            John

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            • #7
              Originally posted by OGBrewer76 View Post
              So, just to be clear, you are saying that isomerization of AA occurs even when adding hops during KO? How is it then that ProMash doesn't calculate that when I formulate an IPA?
              Thanks
              John
              Probably because ProMash is a computer program that runs calculations based on approximations, not necessarily reality.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MoonBrews View Post
                Probably because ProMash is a computer program that runs calculations based on approximations, not necessarily reality.
                I may be wrong here, but I seem to remember reading that the Promash dude (that's the technical title) was no longer supporting/upgrading his product. I am not certain whether he ever had a "whirlpool IBU" calculation. I do know that Beersmith did not -- until a few years ago and now it does. I converted all my homebrew recipes to 7bbl here at our brewpub ~ 3+ years ago using Beersmith and it has worked out well in terms of expected bitterness. The biggest adjustment was the time to cool after adding flame out hops. On my homebrew setup I would add hops at flame out and within 5 minutes (with an immersion chiller) it went from boiling to <100 degrees. Can't do it on my pro set up. The whirlpool and rest take at least 25 minutes for me. I went with the Beersmith calcs on my very first batch and it worked great. Since then I have restricted "bittering" hops even more and find myself putting the lion's share of hops in at flame out/whirlpool. I have only sent samples out to a lab once, and they were fairly close to the calcs. Close enough for my application anyway -- 90% brewpub tap sales. YMMV.
                Dave Cowie
                Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
                Nevada City, CA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by barleyfreak View Post
                  The whirlpool and rest take at least 25 minutes for me. I went with the Beersmith calcs on my very first batch and it worked great. Since then I have restricted "bittering" hops even more and find myself putting the lion's share of hops in at flame out/whirlpool.
                  so how did you account for the different time to cool? im in the same boat, im not trusting/worried about the IBU calcs from WP additions. happy to ditch bittering addition. but unless i'm entering them wrong the IBUs dont seem to change with time in the WP/hopstand, only by the % utilization estimate.

                  if i go in at flameout or just after FO, like you do, with a 10min WP and then 15min to settle, once i start to cool i still have another 30-40 minutes before its all in the tank. so an hour in hot wort all together. even once we're towards the end of transfer the wort in the kettle is still pretty damn hot. 170-180, maybe more.

                  whats your solution to accounting for that? are you calling it a 1 hour WP starting at 207? something else?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by brain medicine View Post
                    so how did you account for the different time to cool? im in the same boat, im not trusting/worried about the IBU calcs from WP additions. happy to ditch bittering addition. but unless i'm entering them wrong the IBUs dont seem to change with time in the WP/hopstand, only by the % utilization estimate.

                    if i go in at flameout or just after FO, like you do, with a 10min WP and then 15min to settle, once i start to cool i still have another 30-40 minutes before its all in the tank. so an hour in hot wort all together. even once we're towards the end of transfer the wort in the kettle is still pretty damn hot. 170-180, maybe more.

                    whats your solution to accounting for that? are you calling it a 1 hour WP starting at 207? something else?
                    Beersmith calculates the WP IBUs depending on how long the WP+rest are. In my case a 5 minute WP followed by a 20 minute rest = 25 minutes. I don't have a calculation for the time after KO starts until it is finished as the hops continue to stand. But my first few batches were spot on for bitterness from a taste standpoint, so I just do not need to account for that in my recipes.
                    Dave Cowie
                    Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
                    Nevada City, CA

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                    • #11
                      just my experience, but with beersmith anyway, I add 20 minutes to every "actual addition", meaning an addition of at 30 min till flameout is actually calculated as a 50 min addition. That is based on a 5 min whirlpool, 20 minute rest, and 35 minute knockout. When Ive sent in samples to the lab, I have always been very close to my target BU's that way......

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                      • #12
                        We typically have a 10 minute rest plus a 40 minute knock out at 200 plus degrees. We see 20% utilization on our WP. We’ve conducted various trials and measure IBUs on every turn.

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