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Thread: Anyone using a ScaleBlaster?

  1. #1
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    Anyone using a ScaleBlaster?

    Was curious if anyone has had any experience using a ScaleBlaster?

    http://www.scaleblaster.com/commercial/

    Found this at a local plumbing store.

    After a little digging, looks like this unit not only treats water for scaling, but also removes existing scaling in your water system over a couple of months. Seems like a great idea to flush and clean tank-less water heaters, and all plumbing fixtures just by running water through them while using them.

  2. #2
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    I'm very interested in this technology, too. I see it offered by many reputable companies--here's Watt's version: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4357/3...89fac082_b.jpg

    If anyone has experience with these, please let us know!
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    I'm very interested in this technology, too. I see it offered by many reputable companies--here's Watt's version: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4357/3...89fac082_b.jpg

    If anyone has experience with these, please let us know!
    I guess that's what you get for asking a question these days...


    "I don't understand it, so it must not work!"

  4. #4
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    You might want to re-adjust your attitude. I'm also asking about this tech, and in no way implied that I though it was BS. I even cited one of the largest and most reputable companies in the water business, who are selling a similar, if not the same, product.

    I don't want to lay out $1000+ for something no one else has tried.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  5. #5
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    Here's an article from the Water Quality Assn. magazine: https://www.wqpmag.com/sorting-out-scale-prevention It does not address the newer resin-based systems, but casts some serious doubt on the electromagnetic devices.

    Still trying to find any real info on the resin catalyst systems. These seem like they might not be pure hokum, but, as the article above states, there is little in the way of testing or certification standards for scale-reducing devices that do not actually reduce dissolved Ca/Ma.

    The specific media I'm looking at is Scale Prep SP3. All I can find are dealers, no independent studies so far.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 08-09-2017 at 02:41 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  6. #6
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    Arrgh!

    Two hours on the internet, and I finally have some idea of what the heck this stuff is.

    I got started on this because I just installed three Rinnai C199 tankless water heaters in our HL system. Rinnai recommends that a media filter be used in hard water situations--which we definitely have. My question was simply "Do they work, or does Rinnai have a marketing deal with these guys?" I've been down this rabbit hole before, with a membrane-based air drier that was recommended by one of our equipment manufacturers that turned out to be pure bunk--in fact, it was vaporware.

    These cartridge or tank systems use a Template Assisted Crystallization medium, also known as Nucleation Assisted Crystallization. Apparently it does work, in some situations, for some people. Others claim that it is pure hokum. I found one study that may have been a truly independent study, done at Arizona State U., which found positive effects on scaling on water heating elements, but lost it in the mind-numbing research I've been doing. The vast majority of "studies" I encountered were sponsored by folks marketing this tech, which, to me, is a red flag.

    The one definite conclusion was that these DO NOT SOFTEN WATER. They claim to cause the temporary hardness to form nano-crystals, which don't deposit as scale, but the minerals are still in the water.

    My conclusion: If I can get a small unit cheaply that will keep up with a 10 gpm max flow to the Rinnai, I'll try one out for comparison, and post the results. It'll take a while to be able to compare, so probably a month or more out.

    As for the magnetic or electronic scale reducers ("salt-free softeners"), all I found were claims of fraud, lawsuits, and the fact that their sale is banned in Germany and several other EU countries.

    If you feel like spending a few mind-numbing hours of reading up on this, here's a start: https://www.google.com/search?q=nucl...w=1600&bih=899

    I need to step away from the computer and have a brewski.....
    Last edited by TGTimm; 08-09-2017 at 04:30 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  7. #7
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    " Tek"

    Quote Originally Posted by jscottAT4 View Post
    Was curious if anyone has had any experience using a ScaleBlaster?

    http://www.scaleblaster.com/commercial/

    Found this at a local plumbing store.

    After a little digging, looks like this unit not only treats water for scaling, but also removes existing scaling in your water system over a couple of months. Seems like a great idea to flush and clean tank-less water heaters, and all plumbing fixtures just by running water through them while using them.
    Timm interesting.....
    My question is what does it do to the water chemistry? The point being is, if you are using tankless for the sparge water system which has unfortunately for the mechanics, come into vogue in smaller production breweries......does it alter the water chemistry??

    When I was an apprentice I went with the boss one day to see a product made by an outfit called " Fluid Magnetics."
    It was a permanent South Pole magnet set that was clamped onto all kinds of fluid lines, and the thing is, in many cases they worked.
    There was one large outfit in San Antonio that was living proof of large volume scale removal which was undeniable.
    Last edited by Starcat; 08-09-2017 at 04:39 PM.
    Warren Turner
    Industrial Engineering Technician
    HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
    Moab Brewery
    " No Cell Phone Zone."

  8. #8
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    Well, Warren, if this company is producing magnetic monopoles, it's going to get some serious scientific attention, since they are only theorized to exist as sub-atomic particles.

    Extraordinary claims require some extraordinary proofs, and every single study or report on magnetic scale reduction I found was negative--as were the fraud complaints and lawsuits.

    The TAC system shouldn't change the water chemistry at all, unless is actually increases the permanent hardness reaching the brewhouse, if less scale is actually deposited in the plumbing. As I mentioned above, this is not water softening--all the salts are still there, but, so it's claimed, in a form that does not form scale deposits.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  9. #9
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    As old as snake oil....

    I've seen pretty much the same thing sold for draft lines- claiming that it eliminates the need to clean lines as frequently or not at all, with as much hard science behind it as homeopathy. I also remember a version from quite a way back that went on the fuel line in your car, giving you a cleaner engine, better mileage, and fresher breath. How does it work? Science! Quantum! Frequency!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    [...]
    The TAC system shouldn't change the water chemistry at all, unless is actually increases the permanent hardness reaching the brewhouse, if less scale is actually deposited in the plumbing. As I mentioned above, this is not water softening--all the salts are still there, but, so it's claimed, in a form that does not form scale deposits.
    This sounds like how a sequestering agent or anti-scalant works. Usually this is done prior to a process like RO where the minerals (along with the sequestrant) are removed and rejected. If it changes the ions to nano crystals or whatever, then it's no longer an ionic solute. I assume this transformation is temporary? For example, the crystals dissolve back into solution? Or if they remain a precipitate, maybe they don't adhere to the piping of the heat exchanger, but would settle out in the HLT.

    If it's the second case, this makes me wonder if nanofiltration would work here to reduce the temporary hardness. I don't mean a filter where everything goes through it, I mean a membrane system similar to RO where you have a retentate loop and a permeate outlet, and you reject a certain percentage of the retentate. But the pores are not so small that osmotic pressure works to remove the other minerals. Nanofiltration is way less trouble to own than RO, and probably runs at greatly reduced pressure which reduces the energy cost.

    Timm, you must use a lot of water there, I'm sure. Have you looked at pretreatment like lime softening for ALL your water? Especially since the goal is to heat the water, warm lime softening might be pretty workable.

    Regards,
    Mike Sharp

  11. #11
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    Thanks, Mike.

    Our biggest problem with any whole-house pre-filtration system is where to put it--we've rather built ourselves into a corner. I'm aware of the warm lime filtration for carbonate hardness, but it takes up some space.

    Nanofiltration for just the water going into the HLT might be a workable solution. I'll do some research into it.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  12. #12
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    If this gadget actually crystalizes the calcium, the nanofiltration might work. Keep me posted!

    Regards,
    Mike Sharp

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