problems with RTD to controller readings

[barleyfreak]

All my FVs have Reotemp 3-wire RTDs sending to the control panel with Fuji PXR4s running flawlessly for 3 years up until now. One FV just started giving wild temp readings on the control panel out of the blue while in active fermentation. Whereas the actual temp was ~66-68, it all of a sudden jumped to 63, then later 61, and later still 57 -- though clearly the actuated ball valve (I replaced solenoids a while ago) has not opened glycol flow to the jackets. I talked with Premier who I got the equipment from and they said it sounded like a clear wiring problem. So I opened up the back of the Reotemp probe -- checked all the wires, they seemed fine. But I re-seated each one anyway. At the time the Fuji read 57, when I crawled back out after re-seating it actually had jumped up to 65, which was probably withing 1-2 degrees of the actual temp. I thought maybe it was fine again then looked later and it had dropped to 57 on the panel. Then later it jumped back up to 65.

So my question is -- where do I go next? Not sure what other troubleshooting I can do. The control panel wiring?

Thanks for any advice.

[gculhane]

Not Unusual, Sender do go out !!!

That's not Not Unusual, Temperature Sender do go out !!! There easy to replace, I keep a couple in stock and also the PID so we can swap
out to test them, that's the easiest way, swap out & test...

Make sure your wire connection are good and tight, wiggle & pull on them see if there any changes in PID reading !!!

Get some of the thermoconductive paste too !!!!

Gregg Culhane

[barleyfreak]

That's not Not Unusual, Temperature Sender do go out !!! There easy to replace, I keep a couple in stock and also the PID so we can swap
out to test them, that's the easiest way, swap out & test...

Make sure your wire connection are good and tight, wiggle & pull on them see if there any changes in PID reading !!!

Get some of the thermoconductive paste too !!!!

Gregg Culhane

Not sure what you refer to when you say easy to replace and keeping a couple extra on hand. The controller is a Fuji Temp Controller Dual Display PXR4 that runs $175 each. The RTD is a spring loaded 9.5" probe that runs $135. WHen I talked with Reotemp last year, their tech said I didn't need to apply thermal paste when inserting the probe.

[NHBrewer23]

I'm glad you have brought this up. This has been a common problem I have been seeing lately. The problem is most likely due to AC interference than an issue with the controller or the RTD. First off, is the wire to the RTD from the controller a shielded wire? If so, is this wire grounded in the control panel? If so, try removing the ground. I know, it sounds wrong but it seems to be working at settling any bouncing. Does your control panel have a step down AC transformer installed within?

Is the RTD wire running near any fluorescent lights? Is the RTD wire sharing conduit with any AC power? AC current will interfere with an RTD signal and cause similar symptoms.

If you are concerned with your ball valves opening and closing due to the bouncing, you can create a hysteresis (differential) within the controller. This will however limit how close you can control your temperate setting.

I am interested in learning more about your installation of the RTD and controller to see if my experiences are similar to yours.

Cheers,

James

[gculhane]

What I mean is, just like you said, buy a spare RTD spring loaded 9.5" probe it worth the $135, and if you can also a Fuji Temp Controller Dual Display PXR4, better then going down for a week waiting for parts, calling in a expensive teck.

If you don't need the paste, no problem, it does helps conduct the Heat transfer faster,and provides a more accurate reading, I use it..

You have to think what's it costs you to lose a batch of wort / beer, and production time, and to dump it, compared to keeping back up parts, personal it always keep spairs, and keep thing running, easier for me that way,

Time & Production = Products = Money $$$

Gregg Culhane

[gculhane]

James has a Good Point

James has a Good Point, Yes it can be AC interference, I have seen that happen, that should be checked, have you changed anything?? Added anything new?? Rewired anything ???

One way to test it is to replace the old used RTD probe, with your spare one, then check it, then replace the PID, and check it, see what happens !!!

James, also has a good point, check the points he suggested also!!!

Gregg

[UnFermentable]

I literally had a Fuji PXR4 go out on me last week. It's about 5 years old.

There are cheaper options out there (less than $175) depending on what you need your controller to do. Just not in India....

I would check out GolanderUSA.com

They have a number of options depending on voltage input/output, SSR or relay, din size, and display type. Most cover multiple (probe) input types. My $0.02, buy a couple cheaper ones (if you can) and then you'll have a replacement for the next one that fritzes.

You can always swap a working controller (from another probe) to the probe in question to isolate an issue with wiring/interference or a controller malfunction. Simple field test.

Mine was just for a mash temp probe (single display), but the thing is only 1/32 din. This has made it quite difficult to find an economic replacement in India.

If anyone is flying out to Bangalore anytime soon, let me know and I'll buy you beers if you bring me a Temp Controller! (of course I'd buy the controller too)

[gitchegumee]

I've got a used one....

PXR4TAY1 New in box. First $100 takes it. You pay actual shipping. BTW, Unfermentable; try SELEC controls made in India. They are quite reliable and very economical. Broad choice of controllers of all sizes and inputs.

[barleyfreak]

I am not actually balking at the price, just wanted to make sure I knew what you referring to when you said replace. I keep 2 extra $125 mechanical seals around for both pumps at all times. The old 2 is 1, 1 is none philosophy. Having never had these fail, I will probably pick up an extra of each.

First though I will switch with one that works, first the controller, then the probe. That should isolate where the prob is. I cannot think of anything that has changed recently.

Thanks for the advice. I will circle back when I have tried the above.

Cheers,
d

[gculhane]

There you Go, Good Luck, Let me know What you Find

There you Go, Good Luck, Let me know What you Find.

Yes a course you could buy a difference Controller, not a problem, I normally would not, I'm guessing you probable have a couple Fuji Temp Controller Dual Display PXR4 your control panel, in my experience, each brand has a difference programming system, way to set it up, and adjust the setting, I prefer to keep it simple, keep them all the same, even with that I still probable have 6 or 7 difference panels, difference Mfg. each with difference
Controllers ..

Good Luck !!!!!

Gregg Culhane

[UnFermentable]

PXR4TAY1 New in box. First $100 takes it. You pay actual shipping. BTW, Unfermentable; try SELEC controls made in India. They are quite reliable and very economical. Broad choice of controllers of all sizes and inputs.

Thanks for the reference (master of carbonation).....I've looked at em, but again the stupid 1/32 din size is killing me.....bout time to just break out the dremmel and make it bigger, lol. It's considerably cheaper than buying the one (sketchy) option I've found here, or paying ridiculous fees associated with shipping.

To the OP,

I'd stick with the Fuji if you're not concerned about price, for the look and ease of use.

I also like SOLO as those bad boys have been through some very unique projects with me (in other lines of work).

[barleyfreak]

Update. I switched the controller with another that was working fine and now...they are both working -- temps on both FVs are right on. A bit of a head scratcher. Maybe decoupling the controller was like a reboot?