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What hose size and pump is ideal going into cip arm and through ball?

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  • What hose size and pump is ideal going into cip arm and through ball?

    Setting up my ferm cleaning system. It's a 3 bbl fermenter, what diameter hose should be connected to the barb on the cip arm leading to the ball? Also what power pump should I be looking at for this? Thanks

  • #2
    Gray Vintner Food Rubber Transfer Hose with TC ends. Contitech Vintner is the first crushproof hose in the winery & brewery industry.


    3/4 -1 1/2 HP Topline C100md Portable Centrifugal Pump built for tough conditions found in a craft brewery, microbrewery, craft cidery, etc.
    Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
    tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
    "Your results may vary"

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    • #3
      That's quite a bit more thn we would wanna spend... cheaper option for such a small operation as ours? 3bbl

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      • #4
        Is there any reason not to use your nice infection-resistant crimped-end beer hose on CIP? I hear you that it seems like a waste to spend money making a hose infection-resistant when you're only ever gonna push CIP chemicals and sanitizer through it. But it's also only a matter of time before somebody inexperienced or just in a pinch decides "well, I gotta get this batch moved, and a hose is a hose is a hose" and uses the CIP hose for beer. One set of hoses for all applications seems like the most idiot-proof option (and, come on, once the eighth or ninth hour of that third ten- or twelve-hour day in a row rolls around, are any of us not idiots?), long as I'm not missing some reason you can't CIP with your beer hose.

        Edit to say, if you're into spending time to save money, the system I currently use (not my choice, I'm just the assistant) is kanaflex with stainless triclamp hose barbs, held on with stainless T-bolt clamps. In order to fight obvious infection risks (we've found mold in the hose barbs when we've gotten lazy, just so you understand the fire you're playing with) we store them disassembled, sani and assemble the day before we use them, and break them down again if they're gonna be idle for more than a couple days or if it's been more than a week or so. Takes about 20 minutes to build or break down three hoses – even if you're not paying your cellar dweller very much at all, you can see it doesn't take too many cycles to eat those costs savings right up, this is only a solution for the severely and chronically undercapitalized.
        Last edited by feinbera; 08-23-2017, 10:00 AM.

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        • #5
          Yea I'm thinking , a 1 inch barb / w tri clamp with 1 inch id hose, and properly clean and sanitize each time (of course) ... question is -- what size pump would work if I decide to go with this hose setup to the cip ball? 1700$ id more thn I was expecting , tips?

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          • #6
            Assuming I would need something beefier thn my systems small chugged pump?

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            • #7
              Any reason why I couldn't push it through the same 1 inch triclamped barb and hose that I use for blowoff?

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              • #8
                Your sprayballs are 1 inch tri-clamp, yeah? What do you use for your transfer hoses, from brewhouse to fermenting vessel or FV to bright tank? If you're using a chugger, how long are your knock out times???

                Generally, you can use your transfer hoses for CIP and SIP, which makes a lot of sense because then your hoses are getting the same mechanical action as your vessels. You are most certainly going to want to use a portable centrifugal pump for cleaning a 3bbl fermenter or bright, otherwise you will not get the coverage nor mechanical cleaning action.

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                • #9
                  Hoses from brewhouse to kettle are 1/2 inch id... spoke with system builder and they said to go with the chugger max for this which is 17gpm and 1/8 hp. I guess I'll go with that and the same 1/2 inch tubing unless anyone out there sees an obvious red flag? Thanks

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                  • #10
                    Edit- meant brewhouse to ferm

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Beardown View Post
                      Hoses from brewhouse to kettle are 1/2 inch id... spoke with system builder and they said to go with the chugger max for this which is 17gpm and 1/8 hp. I guess I'll go with that and the same 1/2 inch tubing unless anyone out there sees an obvious red flag? Thanks
                      Check the Head-Feet rating of the pump. There is a curve value to all pumps that show the decrease in flow/pressure based upon the height you plan to pump. It's been a while since I looked at the data on smaller pumps, but I think I remember the old March 819's only being able to reach a 6-8ft height. At that height flow rate is significantly reduced.

                      I am sure the Chugger Max is better, but a lot will depend on the length of hose, height of your tank, and the head pressure of the pump. I like to see a good 15psi through my CIP arm when cleaning to ensure a good physical spray in the tank. You won't regret erring on the larger side, especially if you upgrade to larger tanks in the future.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Beardown View Post
                        Setting up my ferm cleaning system. It's a 3 bbl fermenter, what diameter hose should be connected to the barb on the cip arm leading to the ball? Also what power pump should I be looking at for this? Thanks
                        You want to size your hose and pump based on fluid velocity. For once, there is no reason to use separate beer and CIP hoses, assuming you are using sturdy brewery Grade or dairy Grade hoses. You can calculate flow velocity using the Reynolds number. The formula can be found online. The tricky question is wether you run your process hoses and pipes during the tank CIP. Size your pump properly for the sprayball (get a performance chart from the manufacturer) and the connected hoses. If you have different size tanks, a VFD can make a huge difference.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Cheers,

                        Dirk Loeffler
                        Loeffler Chemical Corp.
                        Technical Director
                        loeffler.dirk@loefflerchemical.com


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        Loeffler Chemical Corporation
                        (404) 629-0999
                        800-769-5020 (US & Canada only)
                        www.loefflerchemical.com

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                        • #13
                          We use a 1 horse power irrigation pump for CIP and cleaning kegs

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                          • #14
                            Yea someone else recommended that pump to me as well. Specs say to not use with water over 77 degrees. I'm assuming that you haven't seen any issues with this? Thanks

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                            • #15
                              Nope, no problems so far. I've been using it for about 5 months now with no problems

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