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  • Sparge temps

    We use a single infusion step mash at 66c for and hour and 15mins and our spare water temp is set at 74c. I wondered if it should be a little higher as we have a haze at 3/4 week in cask. Just wondered what other commercial breweries are sparging at? I am thinking polyphenols/proteins from the mash being reduced with a slightly higher spare temp.

  • #2
    Do you acidify your sparging water at all? Polyphenol and tannin extraction is also dependent upon pH and alkalinity. We have ~200ppm total alkalinity in our water and we acidify down to >25ppm alkalinity and a pH of 5.5 all in an effort to reduce/eliminate polyphenol extraction and the presence of astringency down the road.

    The haze you mention could be from multiple sources. What does the betaglucan content of your malt look like as well? Is this in a single beer or all of your beers?

    Cheers,
    Tom

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    • #3
      Hello,
      Yes we acidifying all our brewing liquor and we add salts to adjust the raw liquor which is extracted from bore holes. Our Ph from mash to last running range between 5.3 to 5.1 . Liquor from our HLT is usually approx 5.6. It is only in half of the range of ales and the pale light ales are ok it's just the standard bitters and ESB. We use Maris otter extra pale and can't check the betaglucan content until mon. We have trialed everything back from finings at rack to FV to copper and also our runoff gravity gets no lower than 1007.0

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      • #4
        Sparge temperature is normally 77 - 78 C, But this won't affect the haze. If your pH is OK, and you have sufficient calcium in the wort, then check boil vigour and boil recirculation - are you actually boiling all your wort or do you have dead spots? Are you using kettle, auxiliary and isinglass finings? Have these all be optimised sequentially?
        dick

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        • #5
          We have an external wort heater so I can't imagine we would have any dead spots. We add kettle finings and have trialed a lot of aux and white finings from FV to cask.

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          • #6
            I would also ask the clarity of your runoff during vorlauf....if you have good clarity I would lean towards what Dick is saying with boil vigor and kettle finings.

            If clarity is poor, then I would consider malt a possible suspect (perhaps changing mash schedule). Check for conversion with an iodine test to make sure you are not leaving any carbohydrates behind (although an hour and 15 should be over double what you need).

            Personally I think 1.007 is a little low for final runnings, which could certainly contribute to haze. I like to keep it right around 2.5*P on the low end (1.010).

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            • #7
              Clarity very good upto approx 3 weeks in cask. Just to add to the info we use a hopback and add hops to this and stand for approx 20 mins before transfere to fv. Also as i mentioned our pale ale brands (no coloured malts or very little) have vwry good clarity upto 5 weeks in cask.

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              • #8
                Sounds like infection in that case.

                On different note - who did you get you your wort heater from? And what size kit have you got? Thanks
                dick

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                • #9
                  Defo not infection. Haze.... also the heater is briggs.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Slewfoot View Post
                    Defo not infection. Haze.... also the heater is briggs.
                    If it is not infection (only plating can say for sure), then it could be a polyphenol caused haze as you are guessing.

                    Do you have a chill haze in these beers that disappears at warmer temperatures? Do you see large flocks in your hot break? In the cold break?

                    You may have oxidation happening over the prolonged storage that is causing the haze precursors to agglomerate and become permanent. It is possible that the malt you are using is putting more polyphenols (or more likely proteins) into the wort, increasing the likelihood of this reaction. It is called polyphenol polymerisation.

                    This reaction can be reduced by removing proteins, particulates, or carbohydrates left in the beer. You will likely have polyphenols from your hopping, although using a different variety of hops can sometimes help as well. Oxygen, Heat, Light, and metal ions can catalyse the reactions. Check to see you are limiting them as much as possible.

                    I would check your hot & cold break, kettle coagulant, and mash profile. These can all affect your protein content in the final wort. If you suspect malt, you could try a protein rest that favors proteinase over peptidase (55-58*C for 15-30 mins). This could help break down longer chain proteins, and still leave you enough medium chains for good foam stability and head retention. You could also try a different malt supplier (sometimes easier).

                    Let us know if you isolate the problem!

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                    • #11
                      do you cold condition your beer after fermentation?
                      crash to ~0C for 7 days to precipitate out protein- polyphenol as much as you can and then filter while cold?

                      Every step of the process has a bearing on the outcome. You want to be precipitating out your protein- polyphenol complexes every step of the way from Mash/ sparge/ boil/ whirlpool to hot/ cold break through cold ageing. You can also use silica gel in filtration to pull out remaining protein. This is less useful if you have not already done all you can to drop out proteins ahead of that. Fix your haze problems and then assure long term stability with silica.

                      Try force testing: ie refrigerate to close to 0C for 2 days then let warm up to room temperature for 2 days, repeat. Check for haze at each step. There is an ASBC method to be precise but this is the essence of it. I believe each cold- warm cycle represents ~30 days. You can use this as a means of evaluating procedure/ ingredient changes. Classic diy haze meter is a fluorescent tube with a strip of black electrical tape stuck to it. Look through a sample glass of beer and see how crisp the line between the tape and bulb is. Less helpful for stout...
                      Last edited by beerme; 09-05-2017, 08:02 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Unfermentalbe... Thanks for your info, I will look at the malt again. We had increased our caramalt into some of the brands to compensate the lower colour pale malt. I have been told that Caramalt is under modified and plus we are adding more than we did 18 months ago. It's defo not the base malt as the brands using this have great clarity. Seems the coloured malts.

                        Beerme ... Thanks also I will try the force testing by refrigeration and warming again so we can speed the process.

                        Just got a solve this issue.

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