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  • Co2 Draft Setup

    I'm looking for a little advice on how to set up a direct draw system in our walk in. We are going to have 10 taps, and am wondering what the best regulator/manifold configuration would be. Any advice would be appreciated.

    Secondly, I went to order a Zahm today and am being told they are 7-9 weeks out on delivery. We are hoping to open within the next 3-4 weeks. Are there any cheaper alternatives that are readily available until that comes in?
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  • #2
    First off, download the Draught Beer Quality Manual from the second hit down here: https://www.google.com/search?q=drau...utf-8&oe=utf-8

    The chapter on designing a draught beer system is priceless.

    For the CO2 manifold, the biggest mistake I see--repeatedly--is choking the CO2 supply. From the primary regulator, probably mounted to a 50 lb CO2 cylinder, use a 1/2" line to the secondary regulators. Use one secondary for no more than four kegs--so you'll need 3 secondaries--and use 3/8" line for the drops from the secondaries to the kegs.

    Our pub originally had one secondary regulator to serve 10 kegs. The secondary was fed by a very long 1/4" line from the CO2 main. When things got hot and heavy in the pub, the pours would slow way down and become foamy. Since I changed to the set-up described above, we've never had a bad pour.

    Click image for larger version

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    The red lines are CO2. I made up my manifolds from three threaded Ts. Using the flow-through style regs allowed me to put the service to the secondaries on a loop, ensuring that every secondary reg has the same supply of CO2 when we are drawing fast from multiple faucets. These kegs are serving two stations each, so a good supply of CO2 is even more important.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

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    • #3
      Thanks for the feedback, Timm. So, are you saying to get 3 single gauge secondaries feeding three manifolds? Or, do something like two 4 gauge secondaries and a 2 gauge directly feeding the kegs?

      Edit- After rereading and looking at pic better, I'm assuming you mean 3 single secondaries, feeding manifolds. Thanks, again.
      Last edited by Jlange311; 09-19-2017, 11:12 AM.

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      • #4
        3 single-gauge regs feeding three manifolds, to keep the max. number of keg/reg to 4. This will give you the option of adding 2 more kegs for future expansion.

        The system pictured above uses air-powered beer pumps to deliver the beer, as the lines are 45' to the towers. The CO2 maintains head pressure on the kegs to keep them carbed, plus a little push to prevent breaking between the kegs and the pumps. Your system is just as sensitive to CO2 starvation, possibly a little more so as you'll be using a bit higher pressure for the push
        Timm Turrentine

        Brewerywright,
        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
        Enterprise. Oregon.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok, thanks. Where are you finding the 1/2" and 3/8" hose barbs to replace the standard 5/16" barbs that come on the regulators and manifolds? I'm having a hard time finding them.

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          • #6
            Don't know what the stock situation is, but TapRite is a good alternative tot he Zahm. There are a decent number of posts on the topic, but in short I've found them to give almost exactly the same readings side by side. Zahm is nicer, but TapRite will work great for a few years at least.

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            • #7
              I got a fully rebuilt zahm on here. You have to jump on it right away because they are usually gone within hours of posting unless there is something wrong with it. I sent the taprite back.

              Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jlange311 View Post
                Ok, thanks. Where are you finding the 1/2" and 3/8" hose barbs to replace the standard 5/16" barbs that come on the regulators and manifolds? I'm having a hard time finding them.
                A plumbing supply house or even a hardware store should have the hose barbs. Most regs have 1/4" NPT ports (manifold may be 1/8" NPT), which is a very common size. The 1/2" line I used is PEX w/O2 barrier, so the barbs are the PEX-specific ones, with Oetiker clamps. I use the O2 barrier PEX just because... any chance of O2 infiltrating into the CO2 lines is too much of a chance, and the difference in cost is negligible.

                Here's a detail of how I built the manifolds:

                Click image for larger version

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                All the parts except for the valves are common plumbing parts. The valves make it easier to replace a keg coupler when need, but a single valve for the entire CO2 system will work, too. I happened to have these left over from another draft system job.
                Last edited by TGTimm; 09-20-2017, 10:22 AM.
                Timm Turrentine

                Brewerywright,
                Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                Enterprise. Oregon.

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                • #9
                  I've got some 3/8" braided vinyl laying around. Its got a mild vinyl smell, should that be ok? I'm worried it may impart vinyl flavors into the kegs. I'm also probably just overthinking things at this point.

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                  • #10
                    I've found a lot of variability in the braided PVC line. Some can handle pressure, some can't and balloons. The potential for off-flavor/scent would bother me.

                    1/2 or 3/8" PEX is cheap--IIRC< like $25-30 for 100 ft. No scent, very reliable. I'm using it for the mains, which are at 125 PSI.

                    For the drops from the manifolds to the kegs, I use a red flexible line I get from my supplier (FH Steinbart, Portland, OR). It has no markings, so I don't know what it is, but it's pretty much like beer line, only red. I order it as "CO2 line". I would not use PEX for the drops, as it isn't flexible enough.
                    Timm Turrentine

                    Brewerywright,
                    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                    Enterprise. Oregon.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tim, thanks for all of your posts on here. I have read most all of your posts over the years. I'm setting up a brewery in Syracuse. Can I use pex for nitrogen mains? Psi suggestions?

                      Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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                      • #12
                        Tim--You'll want to use a primary regulator at the N2 tank to reduce the pressure to ~125 psi. PEX can easily handle this pressure. The tank pressure of N2 can be around 4,000+ psi, and not much can take that!

                        I'd go with the O2 barrier PEX if your lines will be of any significant length. It is counter-intuitive, but, even with 125 psi of N2 in the line, there is 0 psi of O2, so O2 will want to diffuse into the line. The cost difference is very small for a great deal of peace of mind.
                        Timm Turrentine

                        Brewerywright,
                        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                        Enterprise. Oregon.

                        Comment

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