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2 Zone Fermenter - Top of beer in between jackets - issues?

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  • 2 Zone Fermenter - Top of beer in between jackets - issues?

    We started out with larger fermenters than we needed to prevent having to buy new ones immediately down the line. We often brew a 20bbl batch of beer into 40bbl tanks if its not something we are canning or need a ton of - we would rather brew more often and have fresher batches.

    We recently started trying a new yeast with a 20bbl batch - switching to Cali Ale (001) from Dry English (007). The top of the beer level fell right in between the jackets and we are wondering if this impacts fermentation character or harvesting. The first harvest we got from 001 was garbage compared to the worlds easiest/thickest harvest we used to get from 007. We were wondering if it was due to the top of the beer being in a small non-jackets band.

    Our temp probe when we do a half batch is midway down in the cone or in the unjacketed band area that I was describing above. When we are crashing we notice that the upper temp probe when doing a half batch has a hard time getting below 40, but when I move the probe down to the cone probe port it instantly reads 30-32. Wasn't expecting such stratification - which lead me to making this post - if it happens during crash, I wonder what temp that band is at during ferm...

    Anyone have experience or thoughts on this topic? Or are we just overthinking this?


    Brian

  • #2
    One of my contacts uses the low level temperature probe, but only the wall jacket, which in his FVs, was only partially covered - but sufficient , not the cone jacket during fermentation. He found it overcooled if he used the cone cooling jacket instead of the wall jacket.

    Does this fit your situation?
    dick

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    • #3
      To Dicks point, I usually cut back manual valves on my cone jackets when crashing to help overcome stratification. The cone is less beer that is already cooler (when fermentation slows), and if you cool it at the same rate as the top, the warmer beer will stay on top and never move, causing stratification. If you cool the top portion faster, then you will get some natural convection to overcome stratification. Have seen it work on dual probe tanks where I could monitor the temperature in both top and cone during crashes. Colder top beer drops and warmer beer rises where it is cooled by the faster flow of glycol in the top jacket.

      I have brewed half batches many times with the beer fitting between jackets and not causing any major differences in fermentation or harvest. The action of fermentation usually gives plenty of convection to avoid any temp issues. The main difference is in relation to hoppy beers and the extra head space, IMHO. I usually add a bit more dry hop, or try to avoid half batches on the hoppier beers. I assume this is due to more scrubbing of aroma compounds. I usually spund.

      The 001 is going to take a few days to drop for a good crop, and it will never be as thick as the 007 Dry English. 001 is a medium flocculator and 007 is medium to high (more high in my experience). English strains are typically known for their high flocculation and early dropping (hence some diacetyl acceptance in most English styles). Of course temperature still plays a large role in how quickly your yeast drops. A good harvest of 001 might look like soft serve ice cream where a 007 is more like a thick paint or something. This is why cell counts are your friend.

      Just my $.02

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      • #4
        By really only filling the cone on your tanks you are not taking advantage of the natural convection formed by its shape. You definitely have to keep the probe well into the beer, not at the top to get a good temperature.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jebzter View Post
          By really only filling the cone on your tanks you are not taking advantage of the natural convection formed by its shape. You definitely have to keep the probe well into the beer, not at the top to get a good temperature.
          I would agree you are not maximizing the effectiveness of the tank shape, but plenty of convection will occur in primary due to the co2 excretion and subsequent rise of the molecules through the liquid (diffusion aided by advection, in my understanding). The shape will not be a major factor in the primary fermentation of a half batch of your beers at the sizes you mention. You should be able to keep accurate temperature during primary as long as your probe is in the liquid and not in the headspace. I've done 7's in 15's, 15's in 30's, 30's in 60's and 60's in 120's with only hop aromas as a significant factor. Usually I have three jackets though.

          Absolutely the probe needs to be in the beer zone to measure any kind of accurate temperature. If your top probe is in the headspace (probably what you are experiencing), it will never get as cold as the beer (hence reading 40*F while the cone reads 32*F) and be subject to changing much more rapidly. If your solenoid/controllers are running off this temp, then the jackets can remain on and cause a stalled or hindered fermentation.

          When you suggest 001 harvest was garbage, you don't really give much info on why. This seems to be the primary focus of your questions. Bad viability? Bad vitality? Low cell count, volume, or weight? Smells bad? Just not as thick? Subsequently pitched beers are slow to take off or stall? Was your beer clear out of the sample port, or still clouded with yeast? More info in this regard could help.

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