Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

how hot is too hot for inline aeration?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • how hot is too hot for inline aeration?

    Hi,

    I'm about to start inline aeration of my wort, but I am worried that my wort chiller won't get the beer down to a cool enough temperature, as at the moment it doesn't get it down to pitching temperature. Does anyone have any experience of aerating wort at quite a high temperature or what kind of temperatures are do-able. From what I have read you should get wort down to pitching temps before aerating.

    I'm a home brewer who is just setting up a larger scale system 500 litres for a small microbrewery, never had any problems with aeration on the small scale would just splash into a bucket and always worked pretty well, so it's all a bit new to me.

  • #2
    Heat transfer from aeration is quite small, but if you have an issue, just coil your air hose around a bag of ice, and it will cool your air down.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Comment


    • #3
      What after aerating?

      If you're planning on aerating prior to getting the wort down to pitching temps, what are you planning to do to get it down to pitching temps? Just letting the wort sit? What temperature are you getting it down to? I would have concerns just letting the wort sit. Less oxygen will make it into solution as temperatures increase as well, though I don't know if the temperature difference you're talking about would make a difference. If you do plan on letting the wort sit, I would worry about oxygen coming out of solution while you wait to get down to temp.

      Comment


      • #4
        Slow down your knock out so that you can reach pitching temp. You don't mention your cooling method (HX) but just slowing down your transfer should help. Or find a way to chill your exchanger water more. Or upgrade your exchanger.

        Adding the air (or oxygen) to your wort at a higher temperature will certainly translate to less dissolved content. You could oxygenate very heavily to overcome some of this, but you would not know your content anyways, and too much o2 can be toxic to the yeast.

        The other issue you have is you will not be pitching your yeast until further cooling has taken place, and yeast is the only reason to add oxygen in the first place. If you aerate hot and then wait to pitch, it is very likely you will loose a significant amount of oxygen before your yeast gets a chance to make use of it.

        If you simply cannot do anything different, you would be better served to aerate after your wort is cooled to pitch temp and you have inoculated yeast. Then use a carb stone to add something to the tank. That is a last choice option though.

        Remember that you have created an almost ideal medium for organisms to grow, and without yeast to acidify and out compete others, you are facing a very real risk of contamination. One bad batch probably costs more than the proper equipment or improved methods.

        Chill your wort properly is the right answer.

        Comment


        • #5
          As they guys above have already mentioned, aerating at a high wort temperature will lead to a lower dissolved oxygen level. To maintain around 10-11ppm O2 in solution you need to get to 10-15 deg. C, so 50-60 deg. F.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by forrestmz3005 View Post
            Heat transfer from aeration is quite small, but if you have an issue, just coil your air hose around a bag of ice, and it will cool your air down.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            I think you got the wrong end of the stick but thanks anyway

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MoonBrews View Post
              If you're planning on aerating prior to getting the wort down to pitching temps, what are you planning to do to get it down to pitching temps? Just letting the wort sit? What temperature are you getting it down to? I would have concerns just letting the wort sit. Less oxygen will make it into solution as temperatures increase as well, though I don't know if the temperature difference you're talking about would make a difference. If you do plan on letting the wort sit, I would worry about oxygen coming out of solution while you wait to get down to temp.
              Well with the cooling system in the fermentor, and the heat exchanger it only sits for about a couple of hours maybe less before reaching pitching temperature so it's not like it's a huge amount of time. I made a beer without using the heat exchanger and it took about two days for the beer to get down to pitching levels, it was the first time I'd used it so didn't know how effective the cooling system was or how well insulated the fermentor was, that beer was drinkable but had some fusel alcohol taste, which I think might have been from sitting there so long before pitching the yeast.

              I guess I need to buy a better heat exchanger. Another thing I could do is let the beer cool down before putting it through the heat exchanger and oxygen and then into the fermentor, but I guess that's probably a bad idea for other reasons.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by UnFermentable View Post
                Slow down your knock out so that you can reach pitching temp. You don't mention your cooling method (HX) but just slowing down your transfer should help. Or find a way to chill your exchanger water more. Or upgrade your exchanger.

                Adding the air (or oxygen) to your wort at a higher temperature will certainly translate to less dissolved content. You could oxygenate very heavily to overcome some of this, but you would not know your content anyways, and too much o2 can be toxic to the yeast.

                The other issue you have is you will not be pitching your yeast until further cooling has taken place, and yeast is the only reason to add oxygen in the first place. If you aerate hot and then wait to pitch, it is very likely you will loose a significant amount of oxygen before your yeast gets a chance to make use of it.

                If you simply cannot do anything different, you would be better served to aerate after your wort is cooled to pitch temp and you have inoculated yeast. Then use a carb stone to add something to the tank. That is a last choice option though.

                Remember that you have created an almost ideal medium for organisms to grow, and without yeast to acidify and out compete others, you are facing a very real risk of contamination. One bad batch probably costs more than the proper equipment or improved methods.

                Chill your wort properly is the right answer.

                yeah ok thanks, I think you're probably right, I need to buy a better heat exchanger.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by UnFermentable View Post
                  The other issue you have is you will not be pitching your yeast until further cooling has taken place, and yeast is the only reason to add oxygen in the first place. If you aerate hot and then wait to pitch, it is very likely you will loose a significant amount of oxygen before your yeast gets a chance to make use of it.
                  This is good point.
                  Even without potential issues with yeast this could lead to decreased shelf-life of beer and wet cardboard off-flavor. Without properly chilled wort I wouldn't consider to oxygenate it, and also I'm sure there is a accessible way to improve your chilling method.
                  Btw, how do you do it now?



                  Sent from my GM 5 d using Tapatalk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by darko View Post
                    This is good point.
                    Even without potential issues with yeast this could lead to decreased shelf-life of beer and wet cardboard off-flavor. Without properly chilled wort I wouldn't consider to oxygenate it, and also I'm sure there is a accessible way to improve your chilling method.
                    Btw, how do you do it now?



                    Sent from my GM 5 d using Tapatalk


                    I've got a heat exchanger I just don't think it's really good enough, I'll just have to try with a better one. I'm used to home brewing and I know a lot of home brewers would use a wort chiller or heat exchangers but my method was literally just putting it in a bucket and waiting until the next day, and it worked fine. Now I'm on a larger scale now, it would have probably been better to learn this kind of stuff before, but I'm getting there. I don't think there's any way around just buying a better one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TL Services View Post
                      As they guys above have already mentioned, aerating at a high wort temperature will lead to a lower dissolved oxygen level. To maintain around 10-11ppm O2 in solution you need to get to 10-15 deg. C, so 50-60 deg. F.
                      thanks, my heat exchanger probably gets down to around 35C or maybe more at the moment

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Suggest you contact UK Heat Exchangers or Fabdec, who make dairy chillers, but also do brewing kit - they are experts in hygienic milk chillers so either of them will size up a decent chiller. What you really need is slightly chilled liquor for cooling. So assuming you want to cool down to 20 deg C, you should be looking for chilled liquor not warmer than 15 C. Not having chilled liquor is a particular problem in summer - lots of people suffer with this problem.

                        Typically you will be looking to produce between 1.1 and 1.3 litres hot water for every litre of wort you cool - probably closer to 1.3:1. Send them your wort volume - you want to cool it in 40 minutes to an hour absolute max, wort temperature - assume 97 C, cold wort temp - choose your coldest wort, and then what your cooling water is - preferably cooled to cold wort temp minus 5 or more. And when you get your new chiller, make sure you get it plumbed so you can clean it flowing backwards so it washes out the crap more easily.

                        Price from UK HE back in 2014 for a basic 10 brl / hr PHE was £470 - but then you have to add on if you want more than just a mild steel frame and screwthread connections - I advise you pay the extra for their goodies. No idea what Fabdec charge
                        dick

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X