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Thread: Starting a brewpub on septic. looking for advise on treating wastewater and disposal.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Guelph/Eramosa Township, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11

    Starting a brewpub on septic. looking for advise on treating wastewater and disposal.

    Hi there,
    First time poster, long time reader.
    Putting a brewpub on septic. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons why not. But we are going for it.
    System is 8bbl but will probably start with about half that.
    This location used to be a restaurant. Including 3 inline grease traps before the septic, Then 3 septic tanks followed by a tertiary effluent filter box full of filter media. Water is very good after this process.
    I would like to not tax the septic when possible.
    I've heard some people storing waste water, adjusting the ph and just letting it go on the property. I'm not sure I'll be allowed to do that.
    I'd like to hear if anyone has any ideas for keeping wastewater down, or treatment of it and ideas? Maybe the farmer next door would love it if I watered his or her crops once the water is within the desired readings.
    Thanks so much!
    Ian Leis
    Brewer/ Owner
    Ward1BrewingCo.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    79
    I am sure you've already thought of this, but you can save water run through the chiller for use in cleaning, etc. Alternatively, since you're in Canada where outside temps are equal or below ground water temps for at least half the year, you could run chiller water back and forth between two water tanks outside, instead of sending any to your septic.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Lincoln, California USA
    Posts
    8

    Use for surface water irrigation

    Hello Ward1BrewingCo,

    Our brewery is in rural Placer County, California. With permission from the state water board, we simply put the process water into tanks (6000 gallon) and use it for onsite irrigation (hops, mandarins, and blackberries) at our Farm Brewery once we filter out the solids (sand filter). We batch it so the BOD and nutrient load is relatively uniform. Works great and a nice way to recycle water.

    The BOD from process water is way too high to go into your leach fields. It will forms a biomass (slime) on the trench sidewalls in no time and plug the entire system. You will then have to install a new one ($$$$), if you have the land for it.

    Good luck,

    Earl

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Guelph/Eramosa Township, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by NS_Nano View Post
    I am sure you've already thought of this, but you can save water run through the chiller for use in cleaning, etc. Alternatively, since you're in Canada where outside temps are equal or below ground water temps for at least half the year, you could run chiller water back and forth between two water tanks outside, instead of sending any to your septic.
    That is a great idea I did not think of that. Thanks very much!
    Ian Leis
    Brewer/ Owner
    Ward1BrewingCo.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Guelph/Eramosa Township, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Stephens View Post
    Hello Ward1BrewingCo,

    Our brewery is in rural Placer County, California. With permission from the state water board, we simply put the process water into tanks (6000 gallon) and use it for onsite irrigation (hops, mandarins, and blackberries) at our Farm Brewery once we filter out the solids (sand filter). We batch it so the BOD and nutrient load is relatively uniform. Works great and a nice way to recycle water.

    The BOD from process water is way too high to go into your leach fields. It will forms a biomass (slime) on the trench sidewalls in no time and plug the entire system. You will then have to install a new one ($$$$), if you have the land for it.

    Good luck,

    Earl
    Thanks a lot Earl! This is great to hear. Could you recommend a sand filter? Also, what are you doing with the solids from the filter? Or does that just get pitched with the filter cartridges?
    Thank you again, this is so damn exciting!
    Ian Leis
    Brewer/ Owner
    Ward1BrewingCo.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by Ward1BrewingCo. View Post
    That is a great idea I did not think of that. Thanks very much!
    I haven't actually done it yet, but the plan is to use two stacked 250 gallon plastic totes. You can get them off Kijiji for a couple hundred bucks. Average daily temp in Nova Scotia never drops below about -6 C for extended periods of time, so I think I could get away with just electric wrap on the piping to stop freezing, and otherwise rely on the large thermal mass and the input of heat from brewing for the tanks. Ontario's a bit of a different scenario, but you can buy trough/tank immersion heaters for <$100. That's what we used on our farm in Northern BC growing up. Worked great. For example: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...icer-1500-watt Set up would have the advantage of making available near zero degree water for large parts of the year, greatly increasing cooling efficiency.

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Lincoln, California USA
    Posts
    8

    Use for surface water irrigation

    Hello Ward1BrewingCo,

    The filter system will need to be sized based on the anticipated flow and amount of bio solids. Also, build in a second (redundant) filter in case the first one clogs. You can go to a farm irrigation company or a good engineer to size it (usually, the farm irrigation company is cheaper). As far as purchasing a filter, there are many. That same farm irrigation company or a pool supply company have the filters (based on the size you need).

    As far as the bio solids, I simply use them for compost for my hops, mandarins, and berries. I don't get too much in the filter as most settles out in the storage tanks and have to be cleaned out once in a while. Note: don't put the intake to your filtration system at the bottom of the tank; you will suck up the solids.

    Based on the design, you could probably use filter cartilages rater than sand filters. I just happened to have a couple of sand filter laying around.

    Good luck,

    Earl

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1

    Lightbulb Saving waste water with Blucher Hygienic Pro Trench

    Quote Originally Posted by Ward1BrewingCo. View Post
    Hi there,
    First time poster, long time reader.
    Putting a brewpub on septic. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons why not. But we are going for it.
    System is 8bbl but will probably start with about half that.
    This location used to be a restaurant. Including 3 inline grease traps before the septic, Then 3 septic tanks followed by a tertiary effluent filter box full of filter media. Water is very good after this process.
    I would like to not tax the septic when possible.
    I've heard some people storing waste water, adjusting the ph and just letting it go on the property. I'm not sure I'll be allowed to do that.
    I'd like to hear if anyone has any ideas for keeping wastewater down, or treatment of it and ideas? Maybe the farmer next door would love it if I watered his or her crops once the water is within the desired readings.
    Thanks so much!
    Ward1BrewingCo.

    If you are looking at which kind of drains to be putting in your floor you should check out Blucherpipe.com/breweries. We have had much success in the craft brewers space when it comes to saving water and cutting clean out time. Mad Tree Brewing in Cincinnati OH is saving over 1000k gallons of water per year with the Hygienic Pro stainless steel trench drain installed.

    Let me know if you have any questions,

    Ahogan.blucher

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    51
    I'm sure you're aware, but many small breweries operate in the range of 8-15 gallons of water per gallon of beer produced, so look at what your production will be, and make sure your system can handle that.

    Regarding the back and forth pumping of cooling water, why wouldn't you capture the heated cooling water in a hot liquor tank to use for the next brew? Letting that heated water simply cool down is a huge waste of thermal energy/$$.
    Peter Landman | Brewmaster | Seabright Brewery | Santa Cruz, CA

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Guelph/Eramosa Township, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11
    Thank you all very much for the recommendations so far. Looks like because of land requirements the township isn't going to just let us set up an irrigation system for our wastewater after treatment. They want all water through the septic. I still think we'll have to treat it first. But after that they want it put through septic. Really was hoping to be able to use the water on the property for the hops, fruit trees and even the pumpkins for the harvest ale. I'll leave more info as it comes. Thanks again and keep the ideas coming.
    Ian Leis
    Brewer/ Owner
    Ward1BrewingCo.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Guelph/Eramosa Township, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11

    please see my next post Engineer has some input

    please see my other post as there is some input from out engineer who is speaking with the township on this issue. Even if you don't have input it is interesting for sure.
    Ian Leis
    Brewer/ Owner
    Ward1BrewingCo.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    78

    Brewpub on Septic

    We operated a Taproom off a septic system for just over 2 years. If you can go on sanitary sewer you need to do it and mitigate your BOD to reduce your surcharge. We spent more in pumping our holding tank than we paid for our rent. We did 260bbl through the taproom and 100bbl in distribution. Much of that was limited due to how busy we were during the weekend, we could only brew/clean/transfer 4 days a week to prevent the tank from overflowing (it was out next to our patio).

    If you have a holding tank and need to pump, in a pub situation you need to figure that every beer sold equates to 1 flush of the toilet. That is where our septic load came from, we pumped on Monday so we could brew during the week. Friday at the end so we could brew one more day and be prepared for the weekend (we also had landlord issues that required this). Pumped on Saturday morning during peak season so we could make it through Sunday. Our first year we spent almost $28K and $39K our second.

    We had a plan to treat all of the waste and move into lateral lines. It included solids separation and we were getting ready to start a pilot program with BioMicrobics in Shawnee KS. They had done a few wineries and were interested in doing a brewery. Were had a falling out with our landlord before we could do anything with them. Our plan was to side stream and treat the brewhouse waste and meter it out into the sewage waste as it gets pumped out into the leach field.

    We would only discharge the brewery waste if it was at a gravity of 1.000. You dont want any sugar going down the leach field/filter bed. The water will evaporate and will eventually turn into "caramel" and gum up the filter bed.

    Email me if you have any other questions

    Chris
    chris@redcrowbrew.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    78

    Brewpub on Septic

    We operated a Taproom off a septic system for just over 2 years. If you can go on sanitary sewer you need to do it and mitigate your BOD to reduce your surcharge. We spent more in pumping our holding tank than we paid for our rent. We did 260bbl through the taproom and 100bbl in distribution. Much of that was limited due to how busy we were during the weekend, we could only brew/clean/transfer 4 days a week to prevent the tank from overflowing (it was out next to our patio).

    If you have a holding tank and need to pump, in a pub situation you need to figure that every beer sold equates to 1 flush of the toilet. That is where our septic load came from, we pumped on Monday so we could brew during the week. Friday at the end so we could brew one more day and be prepared for the weekend (we also had landlord issues that required this). Pumped on Saturday morning during peak season so we could make it through Sunday. Our first year we spent almost $28K and $39K our second.

    We had a plan to treat all of the waste and move into lateral lines. It included solids separation and we were getting ready to start a pilot program with BioMicrobics in Shawnee KS. They had done a few wineries and were interested in doing a brewery. Were had a falling out with our landlord before we could do anything with them. Our plan was to side stream and treat the brewhouse waste and meter it out into the sewage waste as it gets pumped out into the leach field.

    We would only discharge the brewery waste if it was at a gravity of 1.000. You dont want any sugar going down the leach field/filter bed. The water will evaporate and will eventually turn into "caramel" and gum up the filter bed.

    Email me if you have any other questions

    Chris
    chris@redcrowbrew.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Guelph/Eramosa Township, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11

    Thanks so much!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Noble31 View Post
    We operated a Taproom off a septic system for just over 2 years. If you can go on sanitary sewer you need to do it and mitigate your BOD to reduce your surcharge. We spent more in pumping our holding tank than we paid for our rent. We did 260bbl through the taproom and 100bbl in distribution. Much of that was limited due to how busy we were during the weekend, we could only brew/clean/transfer 4 days a week to prevent the tank from overflowing (it was out next to our patio).

    If you have a holding tank and need to pump, in a pub situation you need to figure that every beer sold equates to 1 flush of the toilet. That is where our septic load came from, we pumped on Monday so we could brew during the week. Friday at the end so we could brew one more day and be prepared for the weekend (we also had landlord issues that required this). Pumped on Saturday morning during peak season so we could make it through Sunday. Our first year we spent almost $28K and $39K our second.

    We had a plan to treat all of the waste and move into lateral lines. It included solids separation and we were getting ready to start a pilot program with BioMicrobics in Shawnee KS. They had done a few wineries and were interested in doing a brewery. Were had a falling out with our landlord before we could do anything with them. Our plan was to side stream and treat the brewhouse waste and meter it out into the sewage waste as it gets pumped out into the leach field.

    We would only discharge the brewery waste if it was at a gravity of 1.000. You dont want any sugar going down the leach field/filter bed. The water will evaporate and will eventually turn into "caramel" and gum up the filter bed.

    Email me if you have any other questions

    Chris
    chris@redcrowbrew.com
    This is great information, Thanks so much, I will be in touch,
    Ian Leis
    Ward1BrewingCo.
    Ian Leis
    Brewer/ Owner
    Ward1BrewingCo.

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