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Lacto/Yeast Blend Primary Questions

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  • Lacto/Yeast Blend Primary Questions

    I think some of you may shudder at what I'm asking.

    I've been working on a recipe for a Gose for a little while on and off and have come across the idea of using a blend of Lacto and Brewer's Yeast in primary fermentation to achieve the style in a unique form. In the midst of kettle sour Gose, this idea really grabbed my attention. I work at a small/growing brewery with a 10 hL system and thought that if I did this, I would probably put it into one of my usual FVs (this is where I start to get nervous). First off, I think it's a big risk to put a new beer, especially one with lacto in primary, in a 10 hL tank that we typically use for clean side beer. Secondly, I worry about the tenacity of bacteria like lacto. While I'm confident in our CIP standards, I still see it as a risk.

    I've heard different things from different people like "use a unique set of gaskets" and "don't ever do that" and "eh it'll probably be fine" but I wanted to post about it.

    Has anyone done this? Am I crazy for wanting to try this? Am I overreacting? Any insight is helpful.

    Lastly, our lab will be purchasing an ATP test kit very soon and from what I understand about what I want to try and what ATP tests do for breweries, I plan on at least waiting until we obtain that to begin my wild experimentation (pun intended).

  • #2
    Originally posted by zacthebrewer View Post
    I think some of you may shudder at what I'm asking.

    I've been working on a recipe for a Gose for a little while on and off and have come across the idea of using a blend of Lacto and Brewer's Yeast in primary fermentation to achieve the style in a unique form. In the midst of kettle sour Gose, this idea really grabbed my attention. I work at a small/growing brewery with a 10 hL system and thought that if I did this, I would probably put it into one of my usual FVs (this is where I start to get nervous). First off, I think it's a big risk to put a new beer, especially one with lacto in primary, in a 10 hL tank that we typically use for clean side beer. Secondly, I worry about the tenacity of bacteria like lacto. While I'm confident in our CIP standards, I still see it as a risk.

    I've heard different things from different people like "use a unique set of gaskets" and "don't ever do that" and "eh it'll probably be fine" but I wanted to post about it.

    Has anyone done this? Am I crazy for wanting to try this? Am I overreacting? Any insight is helpful.

    Lastly, our lab will be purchasing an ATP test kit very soon and from what I understand about what I want to try and what ATP tests do for breweries, I plan on at least waiting until we obtain that to begin my wild experimentation (pun intended).
    This is how it was traditionally made, so it certainly can be done. I would suggest the main reasons most people use a kettle sour method is for consistency and time savings. The traditional mixed culture method will take some time longer to achieve a proper sourness. If you pitch too much lacto the pH will drop too quickly and the yeast will stop before finishing its job. If you don't pitch enough, you may have a long time (months) before any sourness is achieved. Blending can be done to help achieve consistency if needed. You will not be able to hop your wort much at all, since lacto is very sensitive to hops.

    As far as cleaning, if you have a proper CIP method and good closed loop techniques, there is no reason to worry excessively. Especially with an ATP tests. Personally, I would use separate gaskets so that I could soak them for extended periods in caustic solution, but that is my AR and it should not be needed. Lacto is a living organism and can be killed with many basic procedures we use in the brewery. It isn't a particularly "tenacious" bacteria, but its the size that poses most threat. It is much smaller than yeast (obviously) so you have to clean everything extremely well to make sure it is not hiding somewhere.

    Do the batch (if you have the time), just be careful to use sterile sampling technique and clean properly. Test your tank before filling it again, with your ATP, or media plates, or both.

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