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Thread: Comparing Sanitizing Chemicals

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    97

    Comparing Sanitizing Chemicals

    perosan = 22% hydrogen peroxide, 5% peroxyacetic acid

    cip acid = 56% phosphoric acid, 1-10 isopropyl alcohol, 4% dodecyl benzene sulfonic acid

    i am new to the perosan. would like to compare the 2.
    is one product better for a certain application? (like using in fermenter vs. serving tank, soaking in heat exchanger, etc.)
    any negatives about either?

    i currently use the acid sanitizer and one prob i see is foaming up during cip. usually have to spritz the foam down.

    any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Plattsburgh, NY USA
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    beware of benzene

    Just my two cents but I would stay away from anything with benzene in it. Bezene is a cancer causing substance even in small exposures let alone chronic exposure. I do not currently use the perosan but have used it in the past with great results for the beer. To handle the concentrated stuff takes great care as it is a very harsh acid/oxidizer. I currently use a 20 ppm solution of iodaphor from Enerco. I don't have a foaming problem and handling the stuff is much safer than any other sanitizers I have used, especially at working concentrations. One thing to beware of though is iodine has a strong odor and if used at too high of a concentration it can effect your flavor, aroma and head retention. That being said I've always had great luck with no adverse effects using iodine based sanitizers. Hope that helps.
    Cheers
    Jay Stoyanoff
    Brewmaster
    Plattsburgh Brewing Co.
    Plattsburgh, NY

  3. #3
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    Apr 2007
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    Florence, Alabama
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    I like Loeffler's PAA.. it's a 15% peracetic acid. Although a little more expensive, you use only 1/3 the volume of the 5% and end up spending less in the long run. Also you won't see foaming with peracetic acids & they drain off well and dry w/o residue.

  4. #4
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    Mar 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    Sanitizer vs. Acid Cleaner

    Really you need to think of cleaning and sanitizing as two seperate things.


    Sanitizers are typically formulated to be no rinse. Meaning any slight residue remaining on surfaces if carried into the food product are harmless or tasteless. For instance Perosan and PAA break down into acetic acid (AKA vinegar). No rinse sanitizers are also FDA approved for this "no rinse use" Acid cleaners are not.

    Acid Cleaners are much more agressive acids and need to be rinsed off and air dried. The rinsing removes the toxic componets of the acid cleaner (*see foot note below) and the air drying alows the acidified stainless to react with oxygen in the air thus passivating it. In addition to passivation these acids dissove beer stone and mineral deposits and neutralize any caustic residue. Incidentally they also kill bacteria (sanitize) due to their low pH. However because you MUST RINSE them off and if your rinse water has bacteria in it...well you get the idea.



    *Its true that benzene is a hazardous chemical, but dodecyl benzene sulfonic acid is a different chemical that happens to have a benzene ring structure (similar atomic arrangement as benzene)and not actual "benzene". I would still rinse the acid CIP off though, isopropanol is toxic.

  5. #5
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    Tadcaster, Yorkshire, UK
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    I,d be wary of using anything with iso propyl alcohol in it. If I remember correctly, this can be used as a head killing reagent in laboratory tests only. If I am correct, then it will need extremely thorough rinsing.

    As the last comment infers - detergents are primarily for removing soil build up, not for killing bugs. The fact that they virtually all (all ?) have a high biocidal activity is simply because they are fairly agressive materials.

    A sanitiser will only be fully effective if the surface it is in contact with is soil free. PAA is not designed to remove soil.

    You need to use either a specifically formulated combined detergent / sanitiser, or separate mater ials, normally in separate cycles. PAA is very short lived, adn is best applied as a one shot rinse
    dick

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    i do use caustic and/or pbw for my soil removal. i was just concerned with the "benzene" fact which has been cleared up now and the concern with the acid sanitizer foaming up and having to use potable water to break down the foam.

    in my fermenters the good thing with using the acid sanitizer i always sanitize with steam/hot water during mash in which would rinse any acid left over out of there. i do not use steam/hot water in the serving tanks though so i thought maybe the PAA would be better suited for a no-rinse in the cooler.

    thanks for all the input

  7. #7
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    Apr 2007
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    has anyone had problems with vinegar flavors in beer when using a PAA like product?

    think it would be ok to pack my heat exchanger with a light concentration of perosan in between brews or should i stick with a hot water sanitation?

    thanks

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Florence, Alabama
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewingnewbie
    has anyone had problems with vinegar flavors in beer when using a PAA like product?

    think it would be ok to pack my heat exchanger with a light concentration of perosan in between brews or should i stick with a hot water sanitation?

    thanks
    I always pack the heat ex with PAA between brews, never have a problem.... I don't know anyone who has ever told me they had it taint their beer

  9. #9
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    As long as you rinse out the PAA before passing wort / beer through the H Ex
    dick

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
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    PAA can taint your beer as it will sometimes foam during CIP--although I wouldn't call it a vinegar taste/smell--at least post-fermentation. Just be sure to rinse before use to knock out the foam.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--
    Worldwide Brewery Installations
    www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com

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