4 head counter filler bottle filler, air in beer line issue....

[morrillt]

So I was following the design of the DIY 4 head deluxe counter filler found here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...9062711&type=3 and getting air in my beerlines....

I am wondering if this might be due to using tubing thats too big, or some other issue? i am using 1/2inch line from keg to root of manifold and 1/4 inch lines to each of the beer lines.....

My work around right now is that I turned one of the 5 manifold lines into a burping air line which I just burp every 5 minutes, I am not sure if this is something though that I should have to do?

is 3/16 tubing the answer? Are the issues I am having within acceptable expectations?

Here is a video of my setup https://youtu.be/Y7F_rYHutYg

[BDL]

So its not air, its CO2 (likely breakout), very big distinction. If that was air your shelf life would be horrendous. you can do basically 4 things 1)raise the head pressure on your keg, 2) get the beer colder before packaging, 3) carbonate your beer less, 4)fill slower, this will likely only help if your getting lots of foaming in bottle indicating the pressure drop on the system is happening to quickly when you fill.

Would be worth checking the seals on the keg coupler too.

[forrestmz3005]

Totally agree with above answer, lower the keg temp (keep in Ice), also your beer lines are way too long, try shortening them, long lines = beer warming up and CO release!


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[morrillt]

ok so....

ok, so the head pressure is just the pressure of the c02 hooked up to the keg right? what do you think is a good pressure for botting? I am bottling at 11 and maintaining a 2-3 psi drop in bottle, if I were to increase that pressure i think it would be a mess when i pull the cork off...

so would using 3/16 beer line likely have no result in helping things? When connecting to faucets people seemed to be big into saying do x feet of air at y diameter, I dont get why whatever is happening with that is not applicable for bottling.... if anyone can explain it that would be awesome.....

Thanks for the help, sounds like my kegs are just too warm.

So its not air, its CO2 (likely breakout), very big distinction. If that was air your shelf life would be horrendous. you can do basically 4 things 1)raise the head pressure on your keg, 2) get the beer colder before packaging, 3) carbonate your beer less, 4)fill slower, this will likely only help if your getting lots of foaming in bottle indicating the pressure drop on the system is happening to quickly when you fill.

Would be worth checking the seals on the keg coupler too.

[forrestmz3005]

Just raise the pressure by 2 or 3 psi, shorten the lines to avoid heating of the beer, and cool down the beer. In my opinion your main problem is the warming of the beer. If you cool it down to say 2 degrees C, it won't degass enough to cause foaming issues, that's the temp used in large industrial fillers. The pressure increase in headspace also helps due to the fact that at a higher pressure gas tends to remain in solution. ( Boyles law ).
The decrease in diameter of the beer line will have no positive effect, and might even cause you more problems due to the increase in flowspeed!!
I hope this makes sense!!!


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[morrillt]

sounds good

last question i think, so if I am raising the pressure to 12 - 13 where do you think i should maintain bottle pressure ideally? of course I will just play with it, but wonder if there is just a standard number that people have found to be optimum.

[forrestmz3005]

There really is no standard due to the fact that it depends on the amount of CO2 you want in your beer. At 2 degrees Celsius if you want 2.5 volumes of co2 in the beer, you have to bottle at 12 psi. There are tables of pressures and temps required for your desired value of co2. Siebel sells a slide rule that helps you with that, but I'm sure that there should be something similar online.


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[morrillt]

inconsistent pressure

New issue, pressure / flow is not stable

1. first let me ask, did i get the right manifold and fittings? This thing just feels too big / overkill for the job - http://www.gwkent.com/manifold-1.html. I have 1/2 inlet valve and 3/16 outputs to the hoselines. I am filling from kegs. My outputs are 3/16 but the stainless on the hose barbs is so thick that I have to use 1/4 inch hosing.

2. inverse the manifold? We are considering having the manifold above the beer lines with the faucets facing down ... thinking gravity will help somehow, and also this will make air in the manifold less of an issue....

3. changing inlet lines? I am considering ting the inlet line into both ends of the manifold, also consider putting the inlet in the center line and walling off the sidelines...

Thoughts?

[forrestmz3005]

Ok. Had to watch the video again... Here is your problem. Since in my opinion you are degassing the beer due to high temp, that gas goes to the top of your manifold, hence the gas in the filling lines since they are pointing down. Turn the manifold so that you output lines are facing down, raise it if you want (no real need there), and check for leaks. Tho filling hoses should not empty if you have no leaks. The manifold size is not an issue, neither are the hose sizes due to the fact that once the system is pressurized, it should hold a stable volume of liquid. As stated before, changing to smaller lines causes a faster flow which gives you more turbulence. Just invert the manifold, and again shorten the lines and cool the beer down.


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[forrestmz3005]

Your exit lines are pointing up, should be pointing down. Not that clear in the last post!!


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[forrestmz3005]

Sorry I didn't see that at first, too busy watching the bubbles!!!
One more thing, if possible install a gas purge valve on top of manifold, that way you can purge the gas from time to time. Sorry I missed the inverted manifold, was too busy watching the bubbles!!!!


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[forrestmz3005]

On this link you can see the size of the manifold this machine uses...

http://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/winemaking/bottling/bottling-machinery/counter-pressure-fillers/d/b-tech-base-counter-pressure-filler-6-heads

As you can see size is no issue. Just orientation, you will still have degassing, but it will remain on the top of the manifold, not in the beer line.


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[morrillt]

makes sense

On this link you can see the size of the manifold this machine uses...

http://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/winemaking/bottling/bottling-machinery/counter-pressure-fillers/d/b-tech-base-counter-pressure-filler-6-heads

As you can see size is no issue. Just orientation, you will still have degassing, but it will remain on the top of the manifold, not in the beer line.


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