Glycol V.S. Cold cellar

[nwcw2001]

I am in the process of planning a brewpub, and I am wondering IF you had your "druthers" would you rather have a cold cellar or jacketed serving tanks.

I am just trying to figure out which way would be the most economic and the one that would give us the smallest energy footprint.

Thanks for the input.

JOhn

[GlacierBrewing]

I've worked in both. The cold room is nice because you don't have to worry about details like solenoid valves failing. But it would be better to use that cold room space for packaged product storage.
The glycol is nice because of the individual temperature that can be applied to each tank or each tank zone. At the end of the day, I'd go for a glycol system with a filter on the reservoir out AND with manual bypass valve controls on each tank. PVC, copper, PEX...... If I had to do it again, I'd do PEX and I'd install a s*#tload of manual hand valves!!!!

My two cents......
dave

[Valleybrew]

In a perfect world the jacketed brite tanks would probably work great but a walk in provides so many options for serving/brite tanks, cooperage, bottle storage, hop storage etc...

[Wes]

If I had to do it again, I'd do PEX and I'd install a s*#tload of manual hand valves!!!!

My two cents......
dave[/QUOTE]

Very good point! We always install a glycol solenoid with 3 manual valves so that (1) the solenoid can be bypassed and (2) the solenoid valve can be removed for servicing. Pretty simple stuff really. The valves cost peanuts anyway.

Wes

[Moonlight]

Sometimes it is cold and uninviting to work in a cold room. Still, I prefer it, but if you cool the room with glycol vs. refrigerant, you will get less dehumidification and have more mold issues.
Cold room could be more energy but could be better beer. Insulate the piss out of the room.

[kokahuna]

I asked our neighbor, Peter Rumsey, at Rumsey Engineering (they helped New Belgium with a lot of their sustainable technologies) about the issue from the footprint perspective as you mentioned. To my surprise, he said that a cold room is likely to be more energy efficient than tanks on a glycol chiller. Of course, all sorts of variables are involved (your annual average temps, R-factor of your cellar/coldbox, efficiency of your chiller/refrigerator, etc.) so nothing is set in stone. But, in general, if you are trying to save energy, a cold box is the better solution. Hope that helps. - Adam

[Moonlight]

Where is the refrigeration moderator?

I am curious if that efficiency difference is because of the thermal change from refrigerant to glycol. If so, it may not apply to glycol-cooled cold boxes. Sure wish we had a refrigeration professional's opinion here.

[nohandslance]

Ambient Air/Usage

You could use outside air to cool your cold room, if it gets below your intended "cold room" temp. If you are in an area that experiences below 40.degree temps this will greatly help on your average electrical load.
Example: Reno, Nevada, Night Time Low 20. degrees: Intake Fan brings outside air in, until cooler temp is reached....., Continue until outside temp goes beyond set Cooler temp...
You will only use fan load on your electrical bill not the whole glycol system.
Note. this is only for cold storage, not!!! fermenters.

I think you are planning to open a brewpub in Fort Collins,, as per you previous posts.. Talk to New Belgium, they will most likely give you more exact figures.
Good Luck