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billk
02-06-2008, 04:50 AM
When dry hopping my IPA (just over a pound per barrel, 10 bbl batch) I usually dump all my hops in a single addition. I was thinking about this and it seems like a good amount of the hops have to just settle in the cone and get covered by the rest of the hops. I was curious as to if I would have better results adding my dry hops a bit at a time possibly over a couple of day. Does anyone have experience with trying both methods and what do you recommend?

Thanks,

Bill Kroft
Marzoni's Brick Oven and Brewing Co.

beermkr
02-06-2008, 06:06 AM
I believe there was an article a while back that said that DogFish hops over a four addition schedule.

I have tried a two addition schedule but really do not have any hard data that says it is any better. I do believe that dry hopping while your beer is still at fermentation temps is the way to go.

Mike

billk
02-06-2008, 06:28 AM
I dry hop at fermentation temperature right at the end while there is still a little activity going on. I'm just trying to figure out if I get the same results by using less hops.

Did you notice an improvement when you did two additions vs. one?

Thanks

Moonlight
02-06-2008, 09:24 AM
It is my belief that the value of multiple additions is a red herring. Imagine that flavor extraction only happens when the hops are in contact with the beer. When cold, some of these flavor compounds will exit the hops slowly along the lines of solubility constants. When dry hops, especially pellets are added, they will eventually fall to the bottom and form an impervious layer, sealing off any further hop/beer contact. While they float, the the portion not touching beer is not giving any flavor to the beer either. Further additions may allow fresh additional contact time (meaning additional flavor extraction) with beer. Circulating, rousing, bumping with CO2, beechwood chips or any other creative idea would likely accomplish the same thing with less hops required for the same amount of hop flavor. Even dry hopping in a wide-bottomed tank would be better than a cone.
Also keep in mind that any oxygen entrapped in the added hops will likely attack the most delicious hop flavor compounds once you have succeeded in getting them into the beer. Any way to reduce this oxygen will do wonders for the longevity of these flavors in your beer.
Others may find it differently.

dubo11
02-06-2008, 09:59 AM
Hey Bill, we do two hop additions one the day before cooling the second the day we crash to 40 F. After three days we hook a co2 adapter to the bottom of the fermenter and bubble in co2 to rouse the pellets. We do this again three days later and then allow a week for the pellets to settle in the cone.

bruboss
02-06-2008, 10:25 AM
I put my leaf hops in a " mash bag" and then tie them to the temp. probe in the tank.
This way they remain in suspension and in contact with the beer.
I realise this means I have opened a sanitary tank but I think the results show that it is a reasonable risk...over 100 batches no problems.

just a thought

Cheers

Chris

fdkassik
02-06-2008, 01:26 PM
I used to do the hop bag with leaf hops in the secondary, but now with the hops situation I am going into the primary with pellets one addition, crash the next day and allow it to settle for five days at 40 degrees. Weve done batches in glass carboys the same way and seems that the pellets breakup and float for a few days then sink to the bottom. Also the batches seem to clairify much better by doing it this way.

Have a great one
Frank Kassik
Kassik's Kenai Brew Stop
kassikskenaibrewstop.com

beermkr
02-06-2008, 02:34 PM
It is my belief that the value of multiple additions is a red herring.

But you go on to say that multiple additions may add more contact time. I think (not an expert here), but along your thought pattern, multiple additions will allow you to break up the settling times of the dry hop addition.

The combination of allowing small portions to contact and the potential rousing that adding hops can give should make a difference.

Bill, I have been struggling with hop aroma in my pale ale and IPA for a while and I think the warm temps made a huge difference. I have only done the pale in a single addition but the IPA is scheduled for 2 additions starting next week. The problem is that we changed our entire hop schedule because I could not get any Cascade this year so the while beer is different.

Mike

Moonlight
02-07-2008, 12:16 AM
"But you go on to say that multiple additions may add more contact time. I think (not an expert here), but along your thought pattern, multiple additions will allow you to break up the settling times of the dry hop addition."
Yes, I believe that multiple additions will accomplish some more flavor, but that there are other methods that don't waste so many hops and get more flavor even so.

Imagine a tall, skinny glass of warm water. Pour in some coffee grounds. They will extract as they fall to the bottom, but as they heap, the buried ones won't extract much coffee flavor into the water.
In answer to your question, yes, you could accomplish better extraction by "refreshing" the hop pile (or coffee ground pile) surface, but the extraction is ever so slow with hops. It would not be anywhere as efficient as if you added fewer hops and stirred it, like if you had merely stirred the coffee grounds in the water.
Whole hops would be looser than pellets.

MJMurphy
03-01-2008, 12:27 PM
We have beer trying a number of different methods to get the most out of dry hopping.

One method is to use whole-leaf hops in bags (nylon bags sold as paint strainer bags) that are attached to a chain that is secured to two temp probes which are conveniently positioned in many of the fermenters we have. After placing the hops in the tank (while keeping slight positive pressure with co2 to try and deter any free-floating bugs) we purge the tank and transfer the beer over, yeast and all.

With this method, the more bags the better.

We also dry hop in bright tanks. We have two tall and narrow bright tanks we use for this. We built a stainless steel screen with detachable rubber edges that we insert in several parts into the bottom of the tank. The screen provides a barrier for the outlet on the bottom of the tank. The screen is cleaned thoroughly outside the tank and then after being placed inside we sanitize the tank and screen in place. We then pitch in whole hops loose in the tank. Some will float as the beer is transfered in and through the will eventually fall out, they will hopefully not compact, thus providing a good amount of exposure.

We have alternately tried hop pellets dropped in from the PRV port on the top of the fermenter (and all the foaming that entails) as well as recirculating the beer through a separate hop-filled chamber (the Hop Coffin as it were).

We have generally had success, but we are still trying to make it more efficient. In terms of effort for gain, the bright tanks with loose hops has been the best so far. We will continue to try new methods.

Does anyone know of any good references for estimating the utilization of dry hopping? Short of breaking out the chromatograph (which we don't have) that is.

Also, we dry hop at 50 deg f.

youngbuckbrewer
03-01-2008, 02:30 PM
We have tried dry hopping in the brite tanks and traditional dry hopping in the fermenters at 65F and find it is the best for efficiency to do it warm in the fermenter. I add pellets via straining bags in the fermenter right before terminal gravity is reached. I then allow the hops to sit at that temperature for atleast 48 hours before starting to crash the beer. I am very happy or hoppy about the aroma and utilization I am getting at a rate of 1.25# per barrel.


Michael Uhrich
Owner/Brewer
Carter's Brewing
Billings, Montana